Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 13 June 2017 uploaded

[Tom Magliery<tom.magliery@justsystems.com>]

        Submitter's message
        Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 13 June 2017
Recorded by Tom Magliery
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/Agenda-13-June-2017

Meeting opened: 8am Pacific time

1. Roll call
Regrets: Nancy Harrison, Dawn Stevens, Maria Essig, Alan Houser

2. Approve minutes from business meeting on 30 May 2017:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00022.html (Nancy Harrison, posted 6 June 2017)
Motion to approve: Kris
Second: Scott

3. Announcements: 
[NONE]

4. Action items:
Bob: Propose change to subcommittee governance based on feedback from Chet Ensign, OASIS TC admin
COMPLETED (noted in advance of the meeting; agenda needs to be updated before archiving)

Kris, Robert, Eliot, Bob, Chris: Scrutinize grammar files (Completed by Kris, Robert, Bob, Chris)
COMPLETED (noted in advance of the meeting; agenda needs to be updated before archiving)

5. Subcommittee governance
(Item postponed until next week)

6. Lightweight DITA proposal

Review comments: Content models

- Errors in DTDs that need to be fixed:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00027.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: I assume that most of these are oversights/trivial, just need to be tweaked
Several people have agreed with all of these items, no one has disagreed with any of them.
[Brief summary of all (most) of the items in the email]
Mark: I was responsible for all of these mistakes, mostly just due to rushing; Notes taken.

ACTION for LwDITA subcommittee: Fix all of the DTD errors in Robert's email

- Content model for ph
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00029.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: Definitions for ph in map and topic are out of sync
There are two questions: 
1. Should we add data to the content model in map?
Don: Is the class attr the same on ph in topic and map?
Robert: Yes it is. Based on past experience we don't want to define two elements with the same name but different class attrs.
Kris: I support doing this
Robert: Does anyone disagree?
(none)
ACTION: Add data to the content model for map

Robert:
Question 2. What should we do about image and xref? Is it a problem that the content models are different between topics and maps?
Mark: We didn't give nearly as much attention to the map as to the topic so I'm not surprised that we did this.
Bob: I think unless there's a compelling reason to exclude them, we should put them in.
Kris: Do we want to align with what we have in 1.3? Or do we want to fix a problem point that's currently broken in 1.3?
Robert: I don't think that's correct. This is purely a LwDITA thing. In full DITA they share the same definition. In LwDITA the topic.mod defines ph as having ph content + image + xref, but map defines it has having only ph
Kris: In which case I agree we should make them consistent
Mark: Sounds reasonable
Kris: Any objections to including them? Any compelling reasons not to have them?
Carlos, Mark: Not really, and it's simpler to have them the same
Robert: Note that this also means adding alt, btw

ACTION: Add image (and alt) and xref to the content model of ph in map

- Map element attributes in LwDITA (id and domains)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00028.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: Didn't know if having @id on maps was intentional or if it should be optional; based on comments before (maps not getting much attention) I'm guessing it was not intentional; in that case I recommend making @id optional
Carlos, Mark: No objection

ACTION: Make id attribute optional on maps

- Domains attribute tokens
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00028.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: Topics have a domain token "(topic xdita-c)" but maps currently do not. We should also add this token to maps.
Carlos, Mark: no objections

ACTION: Add the "(topic xdita-c)" domain token to the definition of map

- Localization attributes in LwDITA
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00030.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert:
1. Any element that acts as a container (ancestor) for natural language i.e. text should have the localization attrs (even if it's just a grouping element)
2. If #1 is fixed, then there are only 4 elements left that don't have localization attrs. We might as well have the attributes on these elements as well.
Recommend that we add the localization attrs to everything (just as in full DITA)
Mark: I remember wondering at the complexity of these structures, would defer to experience
Carlos: In appendix A3 of the note we say we're going to have language, we just didn't get to it in the DTDs yet
Robert: It's there on *almost* everything already

ACTION: Make sure localization attributes are available on all elements in Robert's email; in general the recommendation is to have them on all elements.

- Key definitions and key references in LwDITA
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00031.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: Again, this is just pointing out probable oversights in the current version
1. We need to have @format and @scope on keydef to avoid problems
Kris: Carlos, Mark?
Mark: I've been a bit throw-away-happy in creating these DTDs
Robert: I understand that impulse
Mark: This one happened so recently, it hasn't been thoroughly considered

Robert:
2. Other elements having @href (image, data) also possibly should have @format and @scope. This was problematic in the past because people wanted to reference an external logo/image of some sort.
Carlos: This was not a deliberate choice to omit.
Mark: I wonder if this matters in LwDITA. 
Kris: I think it would cause problems with processors.
Robert: If you apply the assumptions of full DITA, it would cause problems processing in full DITA environments. Scope is the main thing.
Mark: I realize there are problems that were solved with these things. LwDITA is supposed to be lightweight.
Chris: if we have LwDITA that can't be processed via a DITA pipeline, then we no longer have DITA
Mark: So you think not having @format and @scope could break a normal pipeline
Chris: You are explicitly disallowing external images
Mark: I don't have a real argument, just trying to learn. I don't think it would hurt anything to put them on there.

ACTION: Add @format and @scope to keydef, image, and data; the general recommendation is that any elements that use @href should also have @format and @scope

- Misc grammar file items
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00032.html (Anderson, 9 June 2017)

Robert: We don't need filtering attrs on dt and dd because removing them can't produce a valid result
(General agreement)

ACTION: Remove filtering attributes from dt and dd

Robert:
@outputclass is nearly universal, but is not currently on highlight elements, why? Was this another oversight?
Mark: At one point I did have it on everything but that broke it with respect to main DITA. We had it earlier because we wanted to use it with template specialization.
Robert: I would say add it to the highlight elements. Related to that, I think it's missing from everywhere in maps; I also recommend adding it there. Except on topicmeta.
(no objections)

ACTION: Add outputclass to all elements that allow it in DITA 1.3.

- dd element
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00040.html (Thomas, 10 June 2017)

Bob: I wanted to make sure the somewhat complex content model of dd was intentional
Mark: I don't remember this being intentional
Carlos: I don't think anyone will complain if simpletable disappears from dd
Bob: I thought %listblock; was possibly too complex. I don't know the subcommittee's motivations, just want to make sure it was intentional.
Mark: I will look at this

ACTION: Consider the content models for

and

-- make sure they have exactly what the subcommittee really wants

- fn element
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00040.html (Thomas, 10 June 2017)

Bob: Currently footnotes are available as a block not inline. Some users will reject it because of that.
Mark: We had a LOT of discussions about whether it should be inline or block.
Kris: The way fn is implemented in DITA, if you're requiring an ID it needs an xref element. In that case the xref is the binder to the specific point in the text.
Robert: Footnote is a messy one. It's messier in full DITA, the problem here is dropping the full-DITA assumption. In DITA there are two ways you can do a footnote.
Eliot: would it make sense to declare a fnref element?
Kris: They had one of those and I asked them to pull it out (extraneous, added complexity)
Robert: if we really are trying to make this close to HTML, reusing xref is somewhat analogous to always using in HTML.
Eliot: Ok, I can see that.
Chris: Any time we make a LwDITA-specific element, alarm bells should go off.

- props attribute on keydef element
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201706/msg00041.html (Eberlein, 10 June 2017)

Kris: Why is there no @props on keydef? Just an oversight?
Carlos: I think that [oversight] is correct

ACTION: Make props attribute available on keydef

Kris: Given that we have 3 minutes to the hour I suggest we stop here.
Are there any other announcements? [NONE]

Meeting closed at 8:58am Pacific time.

-- Mr. Tom Magliery

Document Name: DITA TC Meeting Minutes 13 June 2017

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Submitter: Mr. Tom Magliery
Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC
Folder: Meeting Notes
Date submitted: 2017-06-13 15:55:47