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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 12 June 2018 uploaded
- From: Tom Magliery<tom.magliery@justsystems.com>
- To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
- Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 17:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
Submitter's message
ACTION ITEMS:
Robert: Test XHTML output with fresh build of OT 2.5.4 (Kris was experiencing problems with it)
Kris: create committee-note repository and add self and Alan as maintainers
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 12 June 2018
Recorded by Tom Magliery
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/Agenda-12-June-2018
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Carsten Brennecke, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Carlos Evia, Dick Hamilton, Alan Houser, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Tom Magliery, Chris Nitchie, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Bob Thomas, Jim Tivy
Regrets: Deb Bissantz, Maria Essig, Nancy Harrison, Dawn Stevens
Business
========
1. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
05 June 2018:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00014.html (Maria Essig, 06 June 2018)
Motion to approve by Kris
Second by Eliot
2. Action items
08 May 2018:
Kris: Set up call with Carlos and Robert about spec IA and sharing content between DITA 2.0 and LwDITA spec (SCHEDULED for 3:15 ET today)
Eric: Consider e-mail on dita-comment from Stefan Eike and report back to TC
3. Open repositories
3a. RNG-to-DTD converter: https://github.com/oasis-open/dita-rng-converter
Eliot: been working on the RNG-DTD converter code. Making it work with non-OASIS stuff as well as OASIS. Got it to work with the DITA 2.0 DTDs. Fixing some issues with non-OASIS shells most recently. Trying to make the code generally more robust.
Kris: I know Frank Ralf has been using it. Others?
Eliot: Yes, Makita-san at Antenna House. Don't know of any others besides myself.
Kris: Is anyone but yourself contributing to the code?
Eliot: Makita-san made one pull request that got me pointed in the right direction on something.
3b. Stylesheets for generating OASIS work products: https://github.com/oasis-open/dita-stylesheets
How is work progressing? What work needs to be done to meet TC needs?
Kris: Robert recently helped me with some fixes. We also have our style sheets in there for committee notes. Bob and I are the maintainers of the repository; asking to add Robert as well.
Kris: Some problems with XHTML build, awaiting confirmation from Robert (ACTION ITEM for Robert -- test with fresh build of OT 2.5.4)
Kris: FYI, reasons we have this in an open repo are 1) ability to get contributions from folks outside OASIS; 2) plan is to make these style sheets generally available to OASIS for other spec authoring teams to use
Alan: What is the SVN repo for? What's the distinction?
Kris: We used SVN for all work before DITA 2.0. Once Github became available we moved all spec work to that. At that time we planned to leave committee notes in SVN. Since then we've decided to do those in Github as well. Currently our only use of SVN is for DITA 2.0 proposals.
Alan: Ok, so it's only that niche use, and for archival purposes. Who maintains that? I tried to download a tarball of a directory and was denied.
Robert: Everybody should be able to download. I would imagine that was just a temporary server glitch.
Alan: Ok, thanks.
4. OASIS repositories
4a. DITA: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita
Kris: Work is marching along. Master branch tied to DITA 1.3 errata 01
Another branch for Errata 02
Another branch for DITA 2.0
Maintainers are Kris and Robert.
4b. DITA for Technical Content: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita-techcomm
Kris: Maintainers are Bob, Kris, Robert(?)
Kris: Bob I know you have an open action item to back out some modules
Bob: I've created a 2.0 Develop branch where I'm doing this work
Kris: ETA when this cleanup will be done on the actual repo not your fork?
Bob: I need to do some back and forth with you and Robert, mainly about keys and what will happen in the base spec
4c. LwDITA: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita-lwdita
Kris: Maintainer is Carlos; anything people should know?
Carlos: A lot of action recently on the CN. Putting stubs for topics for eventual spec.
4d. Need for a new repo for non-spec content (committee notes, other things)
Volunteer(s) to act as maintainers?
Kris: I think we need a new repository for this.
Tom: What are the implications for sharing content across specs and other documents?
Kris: It does make sharing harder
Robert: Note that some of the policies come from OASIS; e.g. I was very sternly cautioned not to mess with the "readme" topic. It's handy to have completely different committers for each one. Some other OASIS committees have many more specifically-purposed repositories.
Kris: sharing between DITA 2.0 and LwDITA will probably be less formal re-use, more along the lines of style guidelines for authoring the topics.
Kris: There would be some benefit to having stock content for committee notes that could be shared among them.
[General voices of assent: Bob, Chris, Tom]
Kris: Anyone willing to be a maintainer?
Carlos: Willing
Kris: Hoping for someone who is not already busy as a maintainer of something else.
Alan: I can see what that will entail.
Kris: ACTION ITEM to create committee-note repository and add self and Alan as maintainers
Kris: Are folks ok with "DITA committee notes" as the name of the repo? [assent by silence]
5. Committee note about multimedia domain for DITA 1.3
OASIS template requested and received in 2017; basic maps and topics set up
What content should this committee note contain?
Who will be the editors?
Chris Nitchie produced DTDs back in 2017; they are in SVN
Carlos: I seem to remember that we started a SVN repository and Keith and Chris and I were drafting something
Kris: It's definitely there, it was you and me and Chris
Kris: Are any others interested in this?
Keith: Yes, please
Kris: As a reminder we are doing this so that folks using LwDITA would not have breakage between this and DITA 1.3 by using this domain
Kris: Four main things to be included in this committee note:
- explanation for why we have this domain
- grammar files
- element reference topics
- instructions for integrating this domain into DITA 1.3 DTDs
Kris: does this sound like a good plan?
[general assent]
6. Question about xml mention domain
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00003.html (Jang Graat, 05 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00005.html (Kimber, 05 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00007.html (Nitchie, 05 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00008.html (Hudson, 05 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00009.html (Kimber, 05 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201806/msg00010.html (Nitchie, 05 June 2018)
Eliot: This is actually a bit embarrassing. The XML spec disallows element and attr names that start with x,m,l. He's totally right.
Eliot: OTOH, no one has ever complained or caught it, nor has anyone ever had a tool reporting it.
[General amazement that NO XML parser known to any of us has ever caught this]
Kris: so what do we want to do about DITA 2.0?
Eliot: We definitely need to rename the elements. The question is what, and there's some discussion about that.
Robert: [Created a new card for a stage 1 proposal for this]
7. Posts to dita-comment
Enhancing filtering logic
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201806/msg00000.html (Frank Ralf, 06 June 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201806/msg00001.html (David Artman, 06 June 2018)
Tom: People want boolean logic
Eliot: I've recently been trying to handle fairly complicated booleans with "normal" filtering
There are some expressions that you simply can't express with the basic DITAVAL. That's a problem in that it's a limitation.
The only solution I can see is to allow a full boolean _expression_ language, I don't want to go there either
Don't see a good solution
The only thing possible would be to have a new attribute that only takes a boolean _expression_, as an optional feature of DITA
Scott: Would you just have that as part of a DITAVAL file?
Eliot: It would be a separate attribute with an _expression_ that you would evaluate at run time.
Chris: My impression is that you continue to tag the content but the logic would be in the filtering rules; that's where the complexity would go. DITAVAL is pretty limited.
Eliot: I don't see how it makes sense to have boolean considerations in your filtering configuration
Scott: Content might be re-used so you don't want expressions in the source
Chris: What you're doing is tagging the content with the properties of the things; how the filtering logic applies is extra-textual, it's outside the content
Eliot: My use case is:
I have two properties A and B; A has values X or Y, B has values S or T. This applies when value of property A is X OR when the value of property B is T *AND* the value of property A is Y. The boolean is a function of the applicability statmenet and at runtime you're simply saying the value of property A is or is not X and B is or is not T.
Robert: That's the sort of use case I've seen
Eliot: One practical solution is that you push that out into your conditions -- define extra conditions for all combinaitons of properties
Eliot: another use case for this is in semiconductors
[general discussion about complexity]
Chris: We already have an attribute @props that has complexity; how much more complexity is added by adding parentheses and operators?
Eliot: @props really doesn't change the boolean interpretation of things at all
[more discussion, general agreement that this is something we can consider if anyone is willing to step forward with a proposal]
Kris: This discussion gives me enough fodder to reply to the dita-comment
8. Kris: Errata 02 has been out for public review, have had no comments yet; I have gone ahead and built final package, fingers crossed we'll vote on it next week.
9. Scott: Correction for upcoming agenda item: proposal for sub and sup needs to be moved to stage 3 not stage 2
Meeting adjourned 9am PDT.
-- Mr. Tom Magliery
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