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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 6 April 2021 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 00:05:52 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will ping Eric wrt reviewing the current state of proposal #33 (copy-to].
2. Kris will make these changes related to removal of unnecessary domains from grammar files
3. charter group will go back to work on TC charter.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 6 April 2021
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Zoe Lawson, Chris Nitchie, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Jim Tivy, Dana Aubin
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Carsten Brennecke, Eliot Kimber
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
30 March 2021
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202104/msg00002.html (Harrison, 05 April 2021)
Moved by Kris, 2nd by Scott, aprroved by TC
3. Announcements
None
4. Action items
[no updates; see agenda for complete list]
5. Check-in: How are people doing in this difficult time? How is your state/country doing?
[no official business covered]
6. Review of DITA 2.0 proposal deadlines
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DeadlinesDITA2.0
(Nitchie) Loosen attribute specialization rules (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/15)
(./) 26 May 2020: Early feedback from TC
(./) 05 July 2020: Early draft to reviewers (Anderson, Eberlein, Kimber)
(./) 25 August 2020: Early draft feedback received from all reviewers
? : Submit to reviewers
? 2021: Initial TC discussion
? 2021: Vote by TC
- Kris; I'm continuing to work on #15 wrt: @ and element specialization rules; hopefully I'll have another draft by this weekend, but got I bogged down last week, overlapping with generalspec editing and indexing.
(Kimber) Deprecate or remove copy-to attribute (https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/issues/33)
15 March 2021: Proposal to reviewers (Anderson, Sirois)
?: Initial discussion by TC
?: TC vote
- Kris; Did Eliot get anything back from Eric Sirois, the other reviewer?
[Eliot not on call today]
- Robert; Chris was another person listed as a reviewer.
- Kris; Chris, were you still planning to review this?
- Chris; I think I was on that list because I did the stage 1 proposal on that, but I don't think I can do it now. I'll try to take a pass, but not sure I'll be able to...
- Kris; and I forwarded a reminder to Eric, who is on the list.
***ActionItem: Kris will ping Eric wrt reviewing the current state of proposal #33 (copy-to].
7. DITA 2.0 stage three proposals
[no updates]
8. What domains shall we include in the base shells?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202104/msg00001.html (Eberlein, 01 April 2021)
- Kris; we were constrained in 1.x in what we could remove, but thought we should talk about this.
- Robert; the reason is partly related is having consistent content models, b/c having to explain why an element x contains child y in maps, but not in a topic is a problem. Also, we have alt titles in the base map but not in subjectScheme maps, and that seems like an oversight.
- Zoe. is there a list of all our domains anywhere?
- Robert; for base, Kris's list in above email, plus classification domain.
- Zoe; I'm looking for what the domains are, not just in base but elsewhere as well.
- Kris; if you're asking 'is there a list somewhere where DITA supplies a list of the domains spplied with the 'standard' doc shells, there's a link in the 1.3 standard language reference.
- Robert; for 2.0, we've removed x, y .x and added emphasis
- Kris; so in base DITA, reason for the change was to ensure that content of navtitle was consistent in the base map and the base subjectScheme map.
- Robert; we didn't want elements like, e.g., 'p' to have all the stuff in maps that they have in topics. So that complexity is hidden, but it still isn't very pretty. The alternative is to have the content be the same in maps and topics; it may seem more consistent, but neither way is very pretty.
- Kris; to some extent, I brought this up, because I take out stuff that doesn't seem to belong,
- Robert; we originally kept utility domain in maps so they would be able to use sort-as. But sort-as is a base element now, so that might not be necessary.
- Kris; so we can get rid of utility from maps? Also, shouldn't we get rid of utility from subjectSscheme?
- Gershon; should we try to rationalize this? for those of us who specialize, we generally take out unnecessary stuff, so taking it out of the standard shells would make it easier.
- Kris; it's pretty clear in the spec that the shells are starter sets, and the best practice is always to create your own.
Gershon; we say that, but most clients don't do that until they really need to. Clients who customize shells are in the minority.
- Kris; also, there's a distinction between donfiguring shells and specialization.
- Nancy; but most users still think configuration of doc shells is part of specialization.
- Chris; I also think we should take hazardstatement and utility from map and subjectScheme.
- Scott; I'm also in favor of removing those elements, just to simplify the starting point.
- Zoe; I don't even know how you would use sort-as in a map.
- Chris; and this is our only chance to do it for a very long time
- Robert; I've seen situations where you would want to sort your topics, but I don't know anyone who's actually done it, so that's not a good reason to keep it included.
- Kris; anything we take out, companies or us could choose to add back at a later date. This is our only chance to take away.
- Zoe; I'm all for tidying...
- Kris; any thoughts as to why we have mapgroup in subjectScheme?
- Robert; because mapgroup is a whole lot of map utility elements, but we don't have to keep it there.
- Scott; it's useful for grouping things in a subjectScheme.
- Chris; but subjectdef does that kind of implicitly...
- Kris; I've not had any use case for it, and I've had a lot of questions of why it should be there; I generally automatically remove it when configuring subjectScheme; I'd argue in favor of removing it from subjectScheme map.
- Robert; sounds like nobody's arguing to keep them.
- Kris; are you comfortable with it?
- Robert; yes, me earlier comments were just to explain history, not to keep them.
- Kris; to summarize, sounds like we'll remove hazardstatement and utility from map and subjectScheme, and remove mapgroup from subjectScheme, but then add alt titles to subjectScheme.
***ActionItem: Kris will make these changes to grammar files
9. Help with brainstorming a list of scenarios for using expansion
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202104/msg00000.html (Eberlein, 01 April 2021)
- Kris; I'd like a bigger group of examples for presentations and examples in spec. If you've done @ specialization previously, pleaes see if you have any you can share. I know Robert and Chris have some.
- Nancy; I may have some of those.
- Gershon; will the mechanism for doing global @ specialization still be supported?
- Robert; definitely.
- Gershon; good.
- Scott; I think I had an action item to post glossary items; I did that, so if you want to look at it, it will be there.
- Kris; thanks, Scott;, I wanted to make sure I'd downloaded it and created a PDF of it for folks to look at. It will be on agenda next week.
10. Continuing: TC charter
NEW Notes from our brainstorm on 02 March 2021
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202103/msg00009.html (Eberlein, 02 March 2021)
We should continue on "Deliverables"; start brainstorm on "Purpose". OASIS TC charter template states re purpose: "Identify the problem and challenges that exist and describe how the TC work addresses those issues."
Starting point for a brainstorm
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202103/msg00005.html (Eberlein, 02 March 2021)
Resources about the charter
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202103/msg00007.html (Eberlein, 02 March 2021)
partial draft TC charter
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202103/msg00004.html (Harrison, 02 March 2021)
- Kris; we need to drill down into what is purpose of TC, and what should the charter say about that. Who would be willing to work on this?
- Stan; I'd work on it.
[folks from original group - Nancy, Stan, Dawn, Gershon - & Kris will work on this]
- Kris; the 5 of us can work together this week and have something for TC to look at this week. as a way to get the TC moving forward on this.
***ActionItem: charter group will go back to work on TC charter.
11. Spec work completed
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/editorialWorkCompleted
[no updates]
12. Continued: DITA 2.0 Webinar for vendors?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202103/msg00018.html (Eberlein, 16 March 2021)
Brainstorm of companies that we should encourage to attend
Brainstorm of roles at companies who should attend
- Kris; when we did 1.3, it was just 'here's whats in the new release.' For this, we need to allocate much more time for Q&A; so should we be looking at 2 hour webinar? maybe we even need a 2-part webinar? we may not get thru all questions and discussion. thoughts?
- Dawn; This is for vendors, not general audience; they may not have more questions; for general webinars, folks tend to drop off after 1 hour. With ConvEX, every vendor pushes back on every block of time we ask for.
- Kris; that's very useful feedback.
- Deb; I agree with that, especially if we're targeting developers or product mgmt. people, where this isn't their main interest.
- Kris; Deb, do you think we should just start with a single 1 hour webinar and come out with part 2 if there are too many questions?
- Dawn; maybe a 2-part; first hour where we present, second for questions and discussion, maybe a week later.
- Nancy; I think that sounds good.
- Carlos; me too, and I'm glad to participate.
- Dawn; if you have a list of who you wan to invite, we can run it thru our webinar tool.
***ActionItem: Kris will do a first cut at a webinar - here's what affects authors, implementors, developers - and put it out and get feedback from TC members. Btw, in that realm. Ixiasoft has been working on what they need to do for their product for 2.0, they may have some ideas as well.
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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