Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 3 August 2021 uploaded

[Deb Bissantz<dbissantz@vasont.com>]

        Submitter's message
        3 August 2021 ACTION ITEMS - 
Kris: Respond to Stefan Eike directly about changes coming in DITA 2.0.
Robert: Respond to Stefan Eike on list about how his specialization works, but does not conform to DITA 1.x.
Eliot: Respond on list to Rudolfo Raya

========================================

03 August 2021

11 AM ET open

1. Roll call

	Regrets: Frank Wegmann, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Zoe Lawson
	Attendees: Dawn, Kris, Nancy, Eliot, Chris, Eric, Robert, Carsten, Scott, Carlos, Deb, Jim

2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:

	27 July 2021 https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00024.html (Bissantz, 27 July 2021)
	Kris moved to approve, Nancy second. No objections, approved as submitted.
	
3. Announcements

	None.
	
4. Action items

	06 April 2021 - Dawn, Gershon, Nancy, Frank, Kris: Work on revised charter

	22 June 2021 - Kris: Update PDF of DITA 2.0 proposals COMPLETED

	13 July 2021 - Nancy: Draft suggested URL string, short description, and purpose statement for OASIS open repo for specializations not part of the standard

	27 July 2021:
	Carlos & Scott: Test drive Oxygen scripts for refactoring content for DITA 2.0 COMPLETED by Carlos
	Kris: Update stage 2 proposal for diagnostic element COMPLETED
	Kris: Send URL to Dawn for stage three diagnostic element COMPLETED
	Robert: Address Carlos' pull request to main spec repo COMPLETED
	Carlo: Generate PDF of LwDITA spec; due 16 August 2021
	Kris: Refactor source for troubleshooting committee note; upload to committee note repo; due 16 August 2021
	Eliot: Draft revised description and purpose for RNG converter repo
	Dawn: Schedule meeting about charter with Kris, Gershon, Frank, and Nancy; assign point person In progress

	3 August 2021:
	Kris: Respond to Stefan Eike directly about changes coming in DITA 2.0.
	Robert: Respond to Stefan Eike on list about how his specialization works, but does not conform to DITA 1.x.
	Eliot: Respond on list to Rudolfo Raya
	
	
5. Check-in: How are people doing in this difficult time? How is your state/country doing?

6. Review of DITA 2.0 proposal deadlines

	https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DeadlinesDITA2.0
	Kris: The revised proposal for diagnostic elements is on the agenda for vote today. Stage 3 for diagnostic elements, we need to align reviewers for this revised proposal. Nancy and Eliot volunteered.
	Dawn: You said you could help with the grammar files.
	Kris: yes I can help. No update on loosening attribute specialization rules. 
	Kris:; Robert. WE have the clean up fixes. Did we decide we actually need to have a proposal? 
	Robert: Yes, we should have something written up otherwise they will be missed in the migration document. I don't think we need a formal proposal because everything has been approved as we came across them.
	Nancy: These are outside of the deprecated items.
	Robert: These were things we found as we worked on other proposals.
	Kris: things we missed in the original proposal.
	Robert: I think this should wait until the final proposals are integrated.

7. Oxygen scripts for refactoring source to DITA 2.0

	Testing the Oxygen DITA 1.3 to 2.0 converter
	https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202108/msg00002.html (Evia, 02 August 2021)
	
	Kris: Carlos will you give an update.
	Carlos: I had a group of generic DITA 1.3 topics that I played with. By default it overwrites the topics. I also tried some tasks with substeps. It handled nested steps well. The only problem were the doctype declarations were messy, weird, and maybe inaccurate. They mention DITA 1.1, but my topics were 1.3. It was very fast, saved a lot of time. My only concern are the doc type declaration.
	Kris: maybe providing feedback to Oxygen about the doc type declaration.
	Robert: This seems like something they will fix.
	Scott: I have an action item to test. I'll try to get to that this week.
	Kris: I encourage everybody to test drive this. Maybe throw some troubleshooting at this. If anybody has collections with reuse. Throw complicated things to see if we can uncover any bugs and help Oxygen make this robust.
	
8. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals -- REVISIONS

	Vote
	Updated proposal for diagnostics element - https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00028.html (Eberlein, 29 July 2021)
	Kris; I updated the stage 2 proposal for the diagnostics elements because some of the content in the stage 2 proposal are conrefed into the stage 3 proposal. Does anybody have concerns about moving ahead to vote to approve this. If I hear none, we will move forward with a roll call vote.
	Dawn: I move that we re-approve the stage 2 proposal for diagnostics. Kris: seconded.
	It was revised to change the content model of the diagnostics element.
	
	Yes: Dawn, Kris, Nancy, Eliot, Chris, Robert, Carsten, Scott, Carlos, Deb
	No reply: Eric (may have dropped off call).

	Kris: we can move this forward. WE should not have any more stage 2 proposals.

	Continuing discussion
	None
	Initial discussion
	None
	Early feedback
	None

9. DITA 2.0 stage three proposals

	Vote
	None
	Continuing discussion
	None
	Initial discussion
	None
	Early feedback
	None

10. E-mails to dita-comment

	Question about attribute specialization - https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202108/msg00000.html (Stefan Eike, forwarded by Eberlein, 02 August 2021)
	
	Kris: Stefan create a new attribute type and added to an element, is this allowed. I think our answer is Yes. In DITA 1.x it is illegal, but it will work.
	Robert: Technically, he should add a token. He could run into problems with the attribute name of Type because it is used in many places. I would recommend against creating an attribute named Type. What he did will be legal in DITA 2.x.
	Eliot: He create an attribute that is not specialized.
	Robert: It is not following the specialization process. It is a generic attribute he added, which means it is a specialization of base.
	Eliot: That is where I'm going, It is not declared as a specialization of base, DITA processors will not recognize it as a DITA attribute. Does the specification specifically allow or deny adding attributes that are not specializations? What does that mean from a DITA standpoint? If I choose an attribute name that is already used in the base DITA grammars, that is clearly not good practice, but is it explicitly not allowed.
	Robert: You cannot add this and expect it to conform. If it is a specialization of base, it does conform. Processors do not care.
	Eliot: You could have any value you want. 
	Robert: Yes, there is no requirement that you do that.
	Eliot: This is an area where a lot of machinery we put in place allows for that. I would expect a processor to go through generalization to do that. I don't know that that has happened.
	Kris: I think it has. I think there are specific things we need to answer. 1. What he is doing does not conform to DITA 1.x. He is opening himself up to issues using the attribute name Type. 3. What he did will conform to DITA 2.0. 
	Eliot: IN DITA 2.0 he is obligated to declare as a specialization of base.
	Kris: Yes and where it is used.
	Robert: There is no way to add a non-DITA element. In DITA 1.x you could add an attribute and use it everywhere, but then constrain in one place. In DITA 2.x you declare as a new element and add it where you want it.
	ACTION ITEMS:	Kris: we need to respond to Stefan. 1. Respond directly to his email. 2. Explain that he can do it in DITA 2.0. I'm happy to take an action item to do #2 because it dove-tails with the loosening specialization proposal. Robert, will you repsond to #1. 
	Robert: I'm happy to respond. I just might hint that this is a silly restriction and going away in DITA 2.0.
	Kris: Please do. Eliot, Anything you want to add? You are welcome to respond as well. 


11. Feedback from Rodolfo Raya

	https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202108/msg00001.html (Rodolfo Raya, forwarded by Eberlein, 02 August 2021)

	Kris: Rudolfo sent me an email directly. Let's decide if there is anything we need to do here and respond to Rudolfo. I don't know if this is a valid point, or Rudolfo continuing to be unhappy about the committee deciding to move to RelaxNG.
	Eliot: I don't think his statement is entirely accurate. The code that George Bina wrote is available. The code should be available for any Java instance. It is certainly something you can set up and configure. 
	ACTION ITEM:	Kris: Eliot, do you want to respond on-list to Rudolfo about this? I wish he wouldn't send emails when he is frustrated with RNG. This is outside my area of expertise and I don't feel comfortable responding to his points.
	Eliot: Yes, I'll respond.

12. DITA TC Open OASIS repos

	Continuing New repo for specializations not part of the standard
		https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00010.html (Eberlein, 13 July 2021)
			We need the following to request a repo
				URL string (part of URL, for example, dita-rng-converter
				Short description (used on Web page)
				Purpose statement (used in README)
				Maintainer name, e-mail, GitHub ID: Carlos Evia, cevia@vt.edu, carlosevia
				Proposed OS license
			Description for new OASIS Open DITA specialization repository in GitHub
				https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00019.html (Harrison, 21 July 2021)

	Continuing RNG converter
		https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00008.html (Eberlein, 13 July 2021)
			https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202107/msg00009.html (Chet Ensign, 13 July 2021)
			Need to revise statement of purpose to cover generating monolithic XSD (DTD also?)

	Kris: This agenda item ties into open action items. We did answer your email questions. I think the answers are in the minutes.
	Nancy: okay then I can finish the description.
	Kris: Eliot, you had an action item to write the purpose
	Eliot: I saw that I plan to get to that later this week.
	Kris: I do want to make sure we have these repos set up before our Webinar scheduled for Sept 14. Many of the questions that have come in have been around XSD, Learning and training, and machinery task.
	Eliot: We should be able to do that.
	Kris: I think there will be more work for the Repo for The specialization no longer part of the spec. We need to get the grammar files.

13. Ongoing Work on TC charter

	https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202105/msg00022.html (Wegmann, 18 May 2021)
		https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202105/msg00025.html (Harrison, 18 May 2021)

	Dawn: I sent out a update because Gershon is not available this week. I'm still looking for a time when every body can meet.
	Nancy: I looked at that. Looks like Thursday or Friday is the only time. I have doctors appointments in the mornings. I could be on for the first 45 minutes.
	Dawn: We are trying to work with Gershon and Frank and also to work with your schedule.
	Nancy: I get up early and could meet at 7 AM.
	Kris: That might work for me. Don't worry about getting 100% participation, just go for the best you can get.

14. Rescheduled Webinar

	14 September 2021 is good for everyone (OASIS, Eberlein, Anderson, Nitchie)

15. Reflecting on DITA 2.0 proposal process

	https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202108/msg00006.html (Eberlein, 03 August 2021)

	Kris: This is an email that I sent out early, before the meeting. As I was updated the PDF of proposals, I thought we are nearing the end, except for the Diagnostics Elements and Loosening attribute specializations. I thought this would be a good time to reflect on our processes. What worked well, what would we want to change for a future release. This is really around the proposal process. 
	Nancy: I was pleased that we had our process in hand enough that we could handle a last minute change, like the diagnostics elements.
	Kris: It does help to have a clear-cut process. We have something we can always fall back to.
	Eliot: I thought the process worked well. We refined it in DITA 1.3. It worked about as well as it could.
	Chris: I thought the process was well. I found the stage 3 template difficult to work with. I just wanted to do a pull request. 
	Robert: I agree and sympathize with. Especially when you had something that touched a lot of files. Preparing the side-by-side was difficult. Doing a pull request in Git was much easier. In one of my later proposal, I added a link to the commit so you could link to the commit.
	Kris: For the proposal for loosening attribute specialization, I did it in the source docs. This touched too many files. Robert, It might be easy for your to go to GIT to view the change, this might not work for all TC members, especially for those who are not familiar with GIT. What I'm doing is providing a PDF that clearly shows with change tracks where content has been significantly altered.
	Robert: I don't think there is an easy way to do before and after reviews.
	Kris: We have something that falls into the less optimal. The before and after works well for relatively simple changes, but difficult for far reaching changes. This might be less of an issue for point releases. It was not as cumbersome because we didn't have any of changes that thoroughly changed the spec.
	Chris: If I didn't know that the stage 3 proposal was going to be a large time commitment. It kept me from finishing things.
	Robert: Yes, preparing that side-by-side view also prevented me from finishing things.
	Kris: I don't think that is keeping me from finishing the Loosening attribute specialization. I think there are other things. Other thoughts about the process. Areas of improvements, less than optimal things, pains. As we moved through the DITA 2.0 process, I updated the templates to be more rigorous about the tracking information. It is critical when we go back to revise proposals. Having better, more consistent tracking information has been critical. In future releases, we might want to have one person manage the tracking information for proposals rather than having it captured in Git Hub. Did other find keeping up with the tracing information a pain?
	Eliot: Yes, it was a pain, but it had to be done.
	Kris: I think there are things we could to do make that easier and smoother. That would be worth doing. Think about this. I'll leave this on the agenda. If anything comes up, share.

16. Spec work completed

	https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/editorialWorkCompleted

17. Approved DITA 2.0 proposals

	Working draft #12 - UPDATED https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202108/msg00005.html (Eberlein, 03 August 2021)
	
	Kris: I did update the PDF. I did not update the working draft number in the agenda. Please review this PDF and make sure all of the proposals are in the document, accurate and accounted for. I would like to have this available for the webinar in September.

12 noon ET close
        
-- Deb Bissantz

Document Name: DITA TC Meeting Minutes 3 August 2021

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Submitter: Deb Bissantz
Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing Architecture (DITA) TC
Folder: Meeting Notes
Date submitted: 2021-08-03 09:23:42