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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 16 November 2021 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:01:18 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Gershon will talk to P. C. dev team about possibility of building a script to create a contains/containedby list for languagee ref topics, as well as one to create monolithic XSD schemas out of modular RNG grammar files.
2. Kris amd Gershon will think about how to define/explain 'pseudo-topics' in the spec.
y=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 16 November 2021
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Carsten Brennecke, Kris Eberlein, Carlos Evia, Nancy Harrison, Gershon Joseph, Zoe Lawson, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Frank Wegmann, Jim Tivy, Stan Doherty
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Scott Hudson, Chris Nitchie, Eliot Kimber, Eric Sirois, Dawn Roberts
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
09 November 20212021
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00023.html(Harrison, 13 November 2021)
Kris moved, 2nd by Frank, approved by TC
3. Announcements
Deadline for submitting to present at ConVEX is 01 December 2021.
[also, this last TC meeting for Carlos; he and VA Tech will be leaving OASIS]
4. Action items
02 November 2021:
Kris and Robert: Provide explanation of element-reference template COMPLETED
09 November 2021:
Kris: Upload updated draft DITA 2.0 spc COMPLETED
5. Review one of element-reference topics
Status: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00030.html (Eberlein, 16 November 2021)
Overview from editors about what comments covered
Feedback from folks who participated?
[Kris went over DITAWeb review usage, including looking at comment responses and showing all comments for a particular topic]
- Robert; wrt comments on contains/containedBy issues, it's a huge pain to create/validate the contains/containedby listings, they're not yet generated, because it's very difficult, but we will create the list, just no t in the official spec, probably in its own PDF, and perhaps not simultaneously with spec. It's created by a bunch of fragile, hacked-together scripts.
- Kris; the most useful thing would be tools other people could use, since ours is the OOTB version; once folks do their own shells and constraints/expansion modules, it mostly likely isn't 100% valid.
- Nancy; and I assume we'll have something in relnotes explaining this.
- Robert; not sure we'll have the list by time we ship spec; depends on whether/when it's available.
- Kris; maybe have a topic in non-normative app endix in spec describing what happened to it.
- Gershon; I don't see why it would have to be in the spec, though it would be nice to let users know about the change. It would be nice to link to it from spec. I've spoken to Precision Content about some tooling/script from them that would run thru any shell and create such a list. I can't make promises about whether they'll help because I don't have budget...
***ActionItem: Gershon will talk to P. C. dev team about possibility of building such a script.
- Gershon; and I would also ask them about tooling to build a monolithic XSD.
- Kris; just reminding folks here that DITAWeb creates some formatting errors, so check with PDF before submitting those kinds of errors. Also, in gen'l if you're suggesting more complex examples in lang ref topic, those will tend to be in arch spec; we've tried to keep too many examples out of lang ref topics. And we're also tring to avoid too many links. Another thing; we don't used normative language about things that are covered by grammar files; normative language is reserved for stuff the grammar files can't enforce. Wrt shortdesc; we try to use shortdesc to describe what something IS; if we can't do that, we default to what it does. Finally, if you want another/better example, please supply one; in many cases, we just haven't been able to come up with better ones in the time we have to work on this.
- Robert; I second Kris' response about coming up with better examples instead of simply suggesting one. How did it work for you?
- Gershon; a couple of global comments; try to remove the semicolons from areas that should really be 2 sentences. Also get rid of perntheses when there's a clarification in parentheses that didn't need parenthsis. Also, DITAWeb responds to entire sections, so we can't make fine-grained changes; that was a bit frustrating.
- Kris; excellent points about language and making spec more available to non-native speakers of English. We spent a bit of time last week, and added more granular IDs to the DITA source, so you'll be able to make more granular comments. We can't do that with examples, because they're codeblocks.
- Gershon; yes, examples were collapsed into a single block.
- Kris; for 1st review, I didn't have configuaration updated, but for 2nd review, you can target any discrete element in dita source. Any more questions?
- Zoe; many times I ended up making page comments rather than element comments because the tool grabbed whole topic. I haven't gone back in to see if there are any replies to my comments, so I can see if I did it right.
- Kris; we'll distribute a collected response later this week.
6. Review two of element reference topics
Notice of review opening: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00029.html (Eberlein, 16 November 2021)
Updated tips for using DITAWeb: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00028.html (Eberlein, 16 November 2021)
Updates on DITAWeb, deadline, etc.
- Kris; review 1 (A) is not closed; review B is open along with an updated tips document. Any thoughts or questions.
- Frank; do you want any more comments on first review, or should we go straight on to review A?
- Kris; we wanted to close it down, but if you have time to make comments this week, we could leave it open one more week.
- Frank; i would like to look at it.
- Kris; if you can, do it before the weekend; I want to generate a review summary over weekend.
- Robert; so we're keeping it open.
- Kris; wrt review B, for next week's TC, we will close the 2nd review and open up a 3rd one, basic topic elements , e.g. p, lists, etc., and b/c of thanksgiving holiday, we have that open for 2 weeks.
7. Review tooling
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00006.html (Eberlein, 02 November 2021)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00016.html (Hudson, forwarded by Eberlein on 09 November 2021)
- Kris; it would be good to get a better-supported product for review, but I don't have time to look into it more thoroughly. anyone interested?
[no one]
- Kris; we'll keep this on the agenda and check with Scott next week.. The reqs at OASIS were that 1) we could only use an external tool b/c they didn't have an internal one, and 2) we needed a way to archive the review in a way that any OASIS member could see it. if we go to a new solution, it would have to meet those reqs; that's the caveat about any tool.
- Nancy; it was better than previous reviews, better tooling thatn 1.2 (PDF) and better having a small amount of material.
- Kris; pls do your best to participate in the reviews as they go out. We need to get the release out.
8. Do we need to define user agent in spec?
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202111/msg00025.html (Eberlein, 15 November 2021)
- Kris; user agent gets referred to in MM topics; I found the definition that W3C uses; if they feel the need to define it, we should, too.
- Zoe; if they define it, we sould too, even if only by reference to them.
- Kris; works for me.
- Gershon; can we simply say we use the W3C definition, rather than redefining it?
- Kris; we can do either; it might be more usable to redefine it.
- Gershon; but if they redefine it, if they make a change we won't have it.
- Kris; I doubt the basic concept of what a user agent is will change within the next decade or so. so we could just use their verbiage and put it in our terminology topic. Will that work for you?
- Gershon; sure
- Kris; also pseudo-topic, you, Robert and I all had same response; it's not good, but we can't think of a better name for that kind of thing.
- Gershon; a non-English speaker will see it and go hunting for a definition, and fight find something completely unrelated...
***ActionItem: Kris amd Gershon will think about how to deal with this.
- Nancy; why don't we define it it in our terminology?
- Kris; better would be to come up a couple of sentences to explain it.
- Gershon; I'll try to come up with something.
11:54am ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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