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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 1 February 2022 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 07:10:34 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will send a note to dita-users about removing object element.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 1 February 2022
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Carten Brennecke, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Eliot Kimber, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Jim Tivy
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Zoe Lawson
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
18 January 2022
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202202/msg00000.html (Eberlein, 01 February 2022)
Kris moved, 2nd Gershon, approved by TC
25 January 2022
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00047.html (Harrison, 31 January - 2)
Kris moved, 2nd Frank, approved by TC
3. Announcements
- Eliot; Servicenow will be upgrading to corporate membership, so Scott and I can both be members thru the company
4. Action items
[updates only; see agenda for complete list]
23 November 2021:
Scott: Pursue possibilities of using Syncrosoft tooling for reviews
07 December 2021
Eliot: Develop new example for object element-reference topic
- Eliot; I looked into this, and discovered that object element in HTML is obsolete and no one uses it, so there's no way to do a new example; it's not the way that anyone recomends that you open a URL, so I'm at a dead end on this. It leads me to think that our example is as good as any other, because they're all pointless.
- Robert; our example was based on HTML4, we got complaints that users didn't understand the element, and we didn't either. If this is obsolete, replaced by audio/video, should we get rid of it?
- Eliot; as far as I can tell, the era of using it for web plugins/addins is gone, having been replaced by _javascript_ etc., and so there's no incentive to use it. So maybe removing it is the way to go. most object usage I've seen is to embed Flash or Youtube videos.
- Gershon; I'd 2nd removing object; if it's obsolete, then it's a security issue, and we should get in step with rest of the world.
- Kris; should we continue discussion at end of today?
[see continuation at end of agenda item #7]
]
14 December 2021
Frank, Kris, Robert: Consider usage of the many ways that we refer in the spec to something being determined by an implementation IN PROGRESS
25 February 2022
Kris & Robert: Schedule meeting with Frank Wegmann
Frank: Speak to his L10N dept. about othermeta element
- Frank; they do pay attention to any @s to translate; they tell translation vendor to pay attention; I'm not sure if they use translate-content @, but they do take care of it; and it hasn't been a problem for any of our translation vendors.
- Gershon; our vendors know their TMX won't give @s for transation, But their default, if not translate="no", is to translate, especially regional formatting dates. so we have to remind them periodically. they expect @ values to be translatable if not specified otherwise.
5. Review D: Subject scheme
Two remaining comments: subjectHead and subjectHeadMeta
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00045.html (Eberlein, 25 January 2022)
DITA 2.0 and the element: Removing the concept of extending a subjectScheme
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00021.html(Eberlein, 13 January 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00022.html (Wegmann, 13 January 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00023.html (Eberlein, 13 January 2022)
- Kris; I haven't seen any response to changes; should we just keep what we've done?
- Gershon; I reviewed the material and it looks good to me.
- Kris; anyone else who made comments, are you comfortable?
- Dawn; I haven't looked at it, will do so today. But really, if you're happy, I'm happy.
- Kris; Frank?
- Frank, I would have said something if anything bothered me.
- Kris; so we're done with discussing whether to remove concept of extending a subjectscheme. We probably should do a formal vote on it.
Kris moved the change, Eliot 2nd
Voting results:
yes votes (12) Robert Anderson, Carsten Brennecke, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Eliot Kimber, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann
no votes 0
6. Review G: Metadata elements
Opening of review: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00016.html (Eberlein, 11 January 2022)
Question about author/@type from ditaweb review
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202202/msg00002.html (Anderson, 01 February 2022)
General overview of comments (Anderson)
- Robert; summary comes down to, we don't know if we would have done things differently, but wish we could have done it 2 years ago. We could have done it differently, but we didn't, and to do it now would require wholesale revision of all the metadata elements and structure. A lot of comments were not suggesting changes, but trying to understand 'why is it this way?' And the answer is 'because it's always been this way'. but the bar to changing them is high right now.
- Kris; even if we had reviewed this 2 yrs ago, the problem is that it's pretty impossible to build OOTB metadata; it's hard to build pre-defined metadata that are generally useful. Some pieces are widely used, but essentially all the pieces are used by someone. For anyone who needs somoething else, they specialize using othermeta or data; so there's no point in removing anything. There were a couple of questions we could address with wording in the spec, so that's what we're discussing today.
1. wrt author/@type, there were bunch of metadata elements had @href and @xref, so there's an @href on author. In 1.3, we made a fix that all elements with @href elements also had to have @scope and @type. This was a problem for author, which already had @type; the result was a linking element, but the @type that goes with author is completely different. This is the only linking element where @type does not match. If you use @href, it will pull in linking @type; I propose that we strike the line that says @type is the author @type. So we'll just remove architectural content that says this @type is different.
- Eliot; I agree with your analysis; I have no problem with making @type on author the same as for every other @type, I've neer used it.
- Gershon; we planned the kind of usage that Eliot described (using author @type), but no one needed it, so we never implemented it.
- Eliot; and you could always specialize author to 'editor' etc.
so lets just do it.
- Robert; so we'll handle that with editing updates; removing conceptual thing.
- Kris; it's so small it doesn't seem worth voting on; we just have to make sure we document it.
[this will be somewhere in migration guide]
Question about vrm / vrmlist elements
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202202/msg00003.html (Anderson, 01 February 2022)
- Robert; these elements were rooted in IBM practice; we considered it a problem to do it differently. Zoe asked 'what if I have 5 parts to my number, there are only 2?'. We don't want to add any more. What will it break if you just put in full version string? So we'll simply allow you to do both; leave it open, can do both, you can use multiple digits for a version number.
- Gershon; in the old days, we used version element, and put all the numbers in it, and it worked fine.
- Robert; it will work, definitiely.
- Gershon; and we integrated with another system, and it worked for that also.
- Eliot; at Servicenow, versions are city names, so no numbers whatsoever. otoh, vrm is consistent with traditional numbering, and our numbers aren't.
- Gershon; many companies add a build number, so it gets into 5/6 digits.
- Frank; everyone does it differently; we did it with a complete version string, now we use vrms (version release modifications), depending on how much we want to display. It's reasonable to come up with a generic one, but I wouldn't want to see any of these @s go, just give examples to show flexibility.
- Robert; best solution is to clarify that the version string can be anything you want it to be.
- Kris; so we'll just update examples and some usage info.
7. Review H: Chunking
Review opens: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202201/msg00031.html (Eberlein, 18 January 2022)
Final status:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202202/msg00001.html (Eberlein, 01 February 2022)
- Kris; review is closed; what's left is editorial cleanup to examples, I've fixed the first 2, but no more; ensured that titles fof figures are parallel, and that code blocks are valid. One topic that changed a lot was 'about the chunk @'. I also added that it only operates on topics and nested topics, not on sections.
- Robert; that's about it.
[no comments or question]
Continuation of discussion of object element
- Robert; we should decide on what to do about 'object.' I think consensus is that we should remove it; if we can't find an example of how to use it, we should do so. If someone objects to it in public review, we could revisit it then. Shall we send a note to dita-users?
- Kris; yes, I can do that; that we're considering removing it, and does anyone use it without it being replaceable by audio/video?
- Gershon; maybe also mention that HTML has dropped usage because of security concerns.
***ActionItem; Kris will do that.
Other:
- Kris; there's no new open review, we'll probably will queue up content of architectural portions about metadata, will see what we can get done.
- Kris; would not be sorry to get rid of object and param
- Robert; people ask and we don't know what they should be; they were both just copy/pasted from HTML.
- Frank; would like to note that now that these reviews have happened, want to applaud you two for the huge amount of work ou've done in stting them up in parts. makes the reiview a lot better
- Robert; thanks and Kris has done most of it.
- Kris; thanks, both of you; I think reviewing spec content is somehting we've always done well
- Kris; Scott, maybe we can talk about Synchrosoft tooling for reviews next week?
11:50 am ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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