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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 12 April 2022 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:22 +0000 (UTC)
Submitter's message
ActionItems; none
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 12 April 2022
Recorded by Hancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Carsten Brennecke, Kris Eberlein, Nancy Harrison, Scott Hudson, Gershon Joseph, Eliot Kimber, Zoe Lawson, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Dawn Stevens, Frank Wegmann, Jim Tivy
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Stan Doherty
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
05 April 2022
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00009.html (Harrison, 11 April 2022)
moved by Kris, 2nd Gershon, approved by TC
3. Announcements
none
4. Action items
[updates only; see agenda for complete list]
05 April 2022:
Dawn: Query clients about use of "passthrough" token for DITAVAL COMPLETED
Carsten: Query SAP about use of "passthrough" token for DITAVAL COMPLETED
Kris: Post on dita-users about whether folks are using "passthrough" token for DITAVAL COMPLETED
5. Continued: Usage of passthrough token in DITAVAL elements
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202203/msg00034.html (Anderson, 22 March 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202203/msg00035.html (Kimber, 22 March 2022)
New e-mails
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00006.html (Stevens, 06 April 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00007.html (Brenneke, 07 April 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00008.html (Stevens, 08 April 2022)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00013.html (Eberlein, 12 April 2022)
- Kris; Dawn, what were the results of your research on who's using this?
- Dawn; one client just has using it on their wish iist, but one is using it successfully. They're using a variety of conditions, which vary based on state you're in, so they set conditions, pass thru, system uses that info based on state. It's not customized, they use DITA-OT as processor, generating HTML.
Carsten; SAP is not using passthru, it does things a different way.
- Kris; I sent email to dita-users, got a reply saying they're not using it but glad it's there. I wonder if other delivdry platforms have similar built-in uses.
- Gershon; Zoomin definitely doesn't do that, just static pages.
- Kris; will be interesting to see if we hear anything else thru dita-users. In any case, we can update the spec to be more precise.
6. Review N: Translation and localization
Opening of review: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00004.html (Eberlein, 05 April 2022)
Status: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/202204/msg00012.html (Eberlein, 12 April 2022)
- Kris; please look at stats; Robert will be updating this based on comments, the eample is a bit contrived, so we've made some changes.
- Robert; I replaced example that was contrived; the new one helps a bit better.
7. Upcoming reviews
- Robert; we don't have a new one ready; biggest reason is that we're a bit burnt out.
- Kris; I'm definitely burned out, and planning to take a 6 week vaca from anything but little stuff, so there will be no major work on spec for next 6 weeks.
- Nancy; how far are we thru the spec?
- Robert; problem is that hardest part of spec is still to come.
we've probably gone thru somewhat more than 1/2 pages, but the hardest part is still to come.
- Kris; maybe 45%-55% thru; a couple of major sections in chapter 8 are gated by the completion of stage 3 proposal for loosening @ specizlization rules. I'm looking at spec TOC. In addition to keys, other significant work is new content on ditamap processing, which has never really been discussed; determining @ values, overview of dita element, etc. We've gotten thru all the easy stuff, but not the hard stuff, like e.g., indexing and cleanup pass thru @ content. We went thru table @s, but not overall @s. And we haven't touched the non-normative content in appendix.
- Robert; I've tried to keep up with some of that; we've gone thru half of pages but not half of the work.
- Eliot; we appreciate that you've done as much as you have. it a herculean task. The only choice we have is to just take a pause.
- Robert; a lot of us will meet up at ConVex and will get re-energized. But the problem with the sections coming is that they're deeply technical, so they're harder to edit, harder to review, and harder to evaluate comments. A small change can have a big impact.
- Kris; it's someothing I notice, TC is currently lacking active members with deep technical experience in implementing DITA processors, we need more participation from folks from vendors. during this 6-week break, we need to consider how to grow active TC membership with those kind of members. In long run, we don't think we can sustain TC with this level of participation. I'd be interested to know if folks have ideas about that.
- Scott; should we consider meeting less frequently? And for docbook, we're working on our last version, we can't sustain that either.
- Kris; I don't think meeting less frequently would have a good effect; I think it would reduce our efficiency and productivity.
- Robert; it definitely works to have weekly reviews; otherwise the reviews won't get done till the last minute, and maya be less thorough.
- Eliot; I agree with that.
- Frank; I also agree; weekly mtgs have an effect on my self-discipline. Also, maybe we should put it on the program at ConVex; vendors depend on our spec, if they're making money from the technology, we should think about getting money or technical help from vendors.
- Kris; for last 5 years, we've tried to do recruitment at DITA/NA and ConVEX, but it hasn't been successful. Maybe we should do a push based on businesses whose business depends on DITA; here's where we are and see if that gets us any more participation. Maybe companies would fund some DITA spec development work; that's something to consider. For some companies, many don't care that much about DITA development; new features are more work than not, so there's no financial benefit in investing in standards work.
- Gershon; I had some discussions with my mgmt. had some IAs contribute to Adoption TC, but not to this TC. I'm limited in attendance. most I can do is to see if we can get someone elso. I can try and have another discussion with my mgmt; i don't personally have enough time. but I don't think they'll commit any more resources. At various conferences, there are different levels of sponsorships. maybe if we contact major sponsors of these events, might be some sponsorship to help you and Robt spend more time on it..
- Kris; there are 2 critical points; 1) we're limited in our current membership; we need to look outside our current pool, and 2) are there corporate sponsors out there? I raised this with OASIS; we need to know if there are OASIS limitatins on doing this - could we get corporate resources? There were no limitations from OASIS perspective. Sponsorship funds generally come out of marketing budget, and there's more money there than for tech work.
- Robert; we looked at that for DITA-OT, the issues there were different from what we'd have for spec work.
- Gershon; one issue is that if they're giving resources, they'll want particular features, might want to take spec editing in directions we don't want to go in.
- Robert; there's a different path for that; you put someone from your organization into the TC.
- Kris; Scriptorium is a corporate sponsor, what goes on that site is what they can get together and what will benefit Scriptorium. Dawn, you have vendor support for conferences; that gets them vendor tables and support, but doesn't drive themes of the conference. And we recently switched marketing; we now require participation in the conference; they now get a free table if they send 3 people at full price to conference.
- Frank; vendors take DITA interest track. How can we convince vendors that there's value in what the TC does? And that it can also be of benefit for future of their products?
- Gershon; for open source standards bodies; folks who were developing the standards were users or implementors of the standard, but not vendors; vendors had no interest in contributing to standards.
- Kris; wrt history of DITA TC, there was initially a lot of participation from vendors. but it's much less now.
- Gershon; in early days, it had more business value.
- Kris; the landscape has really changed; if we're gonna focus on how to grow TC, how to get new support, financial or otherwise, on getting work done, we'll have to work out the business benefit to companies, and it's very different now from what it was in 2004/2005.
- Eliot; short of saying 1.3 was last version, not sure what else we can do. So many users do DITA that are barely taking advantage of 1.3 features, so there's no large body of unsatisfied customers demanding changes.
- Zoe; I know that DITA implementations rarely take advantage of what's there. DITA will solve your problems, but specific features aren't the selling point; also, legacy tools check the box for supporting DITA, without actually doing it. There's not enough full implementation of what DITA can do to make it appealing.
- Eliot; I'm reminded of an SGML book that talks about how companies consider its use a competitive advantage, so they don't talk about using it, even if/especially if it's really working for them.
- Kris; I don't know how this relates to ComTech, but my NDAs mostly say that I can't mention that they use DITA, because they consider it to be a big competitive advantage.
- Dawn; same for us.
- Kris; if you look at current job searches on job postings for DITA as a keyword, the main company is Amazon. But they've never made public the fact they use DITA.
- Dawn; we joke that the entire tech comm world will be owned by ServiceNow.
other;
- Kris; next week we'll hear from LwD SC.
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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