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Subject: docbook-apps-digest Digest #448

DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: writing a condensed form of docbook
DOCBOOK-APPS: empty tags in html transformation
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: gentext customization: remove "Abstract" and
 "Table of Contents" in HTML
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Docbook and FOP
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Slides + css problem
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: XHTML Strict
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: use.id.as.filename may produce invalid filenames
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: [Stylesheets] Adding a text the *first* time
 youencounter a given element?
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: XML support in Word 2002
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: MLA, APA and annotated bibliographies
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: access key customization for TOC entries
AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: no wonder i'm confused about the node() function
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Posts not being delivered...
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: empty tags in html transformation
DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
Re: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: no wonder i'm confused about the node() function
AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
Re: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: no wonder i'm confused about the node() function
Re: AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
AW: AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
Re: AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
DOCBOOK-APPS: docbook -> FO via xsltproc

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Markus Spath <mspath@arcor.de> writes:

> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>>   i like to write my documents and manuals in condensed
>> form, and it would be nice to quickly to go from that to final docbook.
>> 
>
> Since you stay with the xml-syntax anyway

This sounds like a arguable requirement...  If you are interested in
minimization look for SGML minimization features!

Of course, it's also possible to "rename" elements and process the file
using DocBook stylesheets nevertheless.  Just do Architectural Forms (AF)
processing -- this will even work for XML files.

> I'd say XSLT would be a convenient way;

That's a possbility, too.  Or use the Transformation feature defined by
DSSSL.

-- 
ke@suse.de (work) / keichwa@gmx.net (home):              |
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |      ,__o
Free Translation Project:                                |    _-\_<,
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/             |   (*)/'(*)



	Hello,

	Instead of xhtml transformations, I prefer use common html with
an xml output, and no namespace declaration. OK, it's not correct, but
works quite correctly under NS4 _and_ IE; and very useful for later
pipes.
	The only big problem is empty tags.
	For example, I need to override the standard <a name="{@id}"/>
by a <a name="{@id}"><xsl:comment> empty </xsl:comment></a>.
	Is it a big design problem to put those kind of declarations
directly in the html *.xsl? After for a more correct xhtml, the only
thing needed, isn't it to add an xmlns="..." declaration at the root
<xsl:stylesheet/> and the correct <xsl:output/>?
	There's probably lots of things I don't see, but with the xhtml2
draft, it seems that there will be one more URI namespace.





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/ ed nixon <ed.nixon@lynnparkplace.org> was heard to say:
| Before:
|   <div class="abstract">
|     <p class="title"><b>Abstract</b></p>
|     <p>Some document projects successfully completed ...</p>
|     <p>Now, the challenge is to integrate...</p>
|   </div>
|
| After:
| <div xmlns="" xmlns:fo="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format" class="abstract">
| <p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Some document projects
| successfully completed...</p>
| <p xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">Now, the challenge is to
| integrate...</p>
| </div>

You have to be very careful about how you structure the templates if
you want to avoid extra namespace declarations. XSLT is very literal
about those things.

Chances are, you've used a literal result element where the default
namespace wasn't the XHTML namespace.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Individuality seems to be Nature's
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | whole aim--and she cares nothing
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | for individuals.--Goethe
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/ Corey Arnold <corey@wubios.wustl.edu> was heard to say:
| I am trying to convert my XML document to PDF using FOP.  I first
| generate a .fo file using the Saxon XSLT engine using the default
| parser.  Then I am using FOP to convert the .fo file to a .pdf.  I get
| a whole slew of errors (about 200) and the end pdf file is less than

FOP isn't very robust or complete yet.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Success is relative; it is what we
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | make of the mess we have made of
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | things.--T. S. Eliot
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/ luis miguel morillas <morillas@posta.unizar.es> was heard to say:
| How can I tell frames.xsl (slides 3.1) where I have my css style sheets? Html 
| output pages always look for them at 
| http://docbook.sourceforge.net/release/slides/browser/slides.css
| I haven't had no problem with 3.0

I seem to have mangled things a bit. You can use some PIs:

<?dbhtml css-stylesheet-dir="." graphics-dir="./images"?>

But I should improve that a bit.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | The great man is he who has not
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | lost the heart of a child.--Mencius
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee |
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/ Steve.Nunez@bluewave.com was heard to say:
| So with that long preamble, I'd like to ask what the state of xhtml strict
| is? Strict is a requirement of this project, and if it's not available in
| DocBook I'd certainly consider putting in the effort required to get it
| there.

I suggest instead that you simply run the output of the stylesheets
through tidy.

The principle difficulty is that DocBook is very flexible where XHTML
Strict is, well, very strict. Consider this simple example:

  <para>Here is a table of prime numbers:

    <informaltable>...</informaltable>

  The largest prime number is listed first, for your convenience.</para>

Now, it's easy to transform that into

  <p>Here is a table of prime numbers:

    <table>...</table>

  The largest prime number is listed first, for your convenience.</p>

But that's not valid strict XHTML. In order to make that valid, you'd
have to transform it to:

  <p>Here is a table of prime numbers:</p>

  <table>...</table>

  <p>The largest prime number is listed first, for your convenience.</p>

That's much more difficult to achieve in the general case. And if that's
not bad enough, the similar example:

  <p>Here is a table of prime numbers:

    <table>...</table>
  </p>

Can't be translated into this:

  <p>Here is a table of prime numbers:</p>

  <table>...</table>

  <p></p>

Instead it has to be:

  <p>Here is a table of prime numbers:</p>

  <table>...</table>

Multiply this problem by all the possible combinations in DocBook and
achieving XHTML strict in a single pass becomes so difficult that it
doesn't seem worth the effort.

The HTML cleanup code tries to correct these errors. I'd be happy to
try to improve that cleanup code if people provide examples where it's
not complete.

I guess I'm left with three observations:

1. tidy solves this problem very nicely.

2. If DocBook is your source format, what is the motivation for XHTML
   strict? It's important for your HTML to be consistent, of course,
   if you're using CSS, but the markup you get from DocBook should be
   consistent even if it isn't strict.

3. The prohibition against block elements inside paragraphs in HTML is
   a real pain in the *ss. I also think it prevents authors from
   writing what they really meant (in the example above, that the
   table is part of the thought expressed in the paragraph).

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | DNA neither cares nor knows. DNA
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | just is. And we dance to its
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | music.--Richard Dawkins
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/ Marc Palmer <marc@anyware.co.uk> was heard to say:
| The first file (platform-arch.xml) builds to HTML fine usind DocBook
| XSL, but the second file dies straight away.

Sure looks like an ant bug to me.

| This implies that something is not being "reset" between XSL
| processing of the files - whether this is a problem with my use of the
| <style> task, a problem with Docbook, or a problem with ANT I do not
| know.

Dave Pawson was doing some work with ant. Dave, any ideas?

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Part of thinking is its cruelty,
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | aside from its contents. It is the
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | process of detachment from
                                   | everything else, the ripping, the
                                   | wrenching, the sharpness of
                                   | cutting.--Elias Canetti
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/ Gisbert Amm <gia@webde-ag.de> was heard to say:
| 2) Wouldn't it be reasonable to provide a parameter to avoid any special
| characters in the generated filenames?

No. Well, I suppose they could be %-encoded or something, but I think
it makes more sense to avoid those characters in IDs if you're going
to use the IDs to generate filenames.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | There are infinite possibilities
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | of error, and more cranks take up
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | unfashionable untruths than
                                   | unfashionable truths.--Bertrand
                                   | Russell
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/ Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> was heard to say:
| It works and it is elegant and simple. Thanks. I just have to find a
| similar construct in DSSSL (which does not have Xpath).

There is one, though it doesn't occur to me anymore off the top of my head.
Look for the (preceding-...) functions in DSSSL. It's one of them.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | It is a folly to expect men to do
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | all that they may reasonably be
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | expected to do.--Archbishop Whately
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/ "Boos, Paul M." <PAUL.M.BOOS@saic.com> was heard to say:
| I have not had the brief myself - but my customer was briefed and indicated
| it is true; however, they are not using a standard schema under the covers -
| but their own (meaning you can't go to someplace like Oasis/XML.org or teh
| W3C to see what the schema will look like.  Hopefully, they will have
| non-cryptic tags and documentation on it...

You could always encourage MS to join the Office Docs TC at OASIS and
actually use a standard. :-)

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | If man were never to fade away
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | like the dews of Adashino, never
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | to vanish like the smoke over
                                   | Toribeyama, but lingered on
                                   | forever in the world, how things
                                   | would lose their power to move us!
                                   | The most precious thing in life is
                                   | its uncertainty.--Yoshida Kenko
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/ Carlos Araya <carlos@cvc.edu> was heard to say:
| I am trying to get citations for a MLA bibliography I am working on and have
| the following problem: The recomended MLA format for an online resource is:
|
| Bruckman, Amy (1992). "Identity Workshop: Emergent Social And Psychological
| Phenomena In Text-Based Virtual Reality "
|         Last accessed: 8 February 2003
| ftp://ftp.cc.gatech.edu/pub/people/asb/papers/identity-workshop.rtf
|
| How do I get something like this with Docbook?

You have two choices.

1. You can use biblioentry, figure out which pieces of information to
stick in which elements, and write XSL that will format them the way
you want.

2. You can use bibliomixed and format most of it yourself. It looks like
you'd just need a couple of templates to format the last accessed date and
the URI the way you want.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | It is so comic to hear oneself
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | called old, even at ninety I
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | suppose.--Alice James
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/ ed nixon <ed.nixon@lynnparkplace.org> was heard to say:
| I'm just starting to think about a customization to sdbk to html that
| would put an accesskey attribute pair into the toc entries generated
| by the xsl stylesheets. Admittedly, I haven't studied the stylesheets
| in depth at this point, but will be doing so over the next few days.

The tricky bit, I think, is going to be figuring out how to tell the
stylesheets which access key to assign to each tocentry. You'll
probably need some customization to allow the author to indicate it.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | certain: adj., insufficiently
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | analyzed
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee |
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hello,

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Norman Walsh [mailto:ndw@nwalsh.com]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Marz 2003 21:22
> An: marc@anyware.co.uk
> Cc: docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org
> Betreff: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> / Marc Palmer <marc@anyware.co.uk> was heard to say:
> | The first file (platform-arch.xml) builds to HTML fine usind DocBook
> | XSL, but the second file dies straight away.
> 
> Sure looks like an ant bug to me.
> 
> | This implies that something is not being "reset" between XSL
> | processing of the files - whether this is a problem with my use of the
> | <style> task, a problem with Docbook, or a problem with ANT I do not
> | know.
> 
> Dave Pawson was doing some work with ant. Dave, any ideas?

the ant style/xslt task did not work out for me too, because the task
did not used the explicitely specified classpath - or at least i
had the feeling that the classpath wont be used.

as a result a couldn't use the saxon/xalan XSLT extensions because
the are located in some jars.

maybe you know a solution to this ...

regards

daniel s. haischt
--




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/ Bob Stayton <bobs@sco.com> was heard to say:
| On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 03:01:32PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
|> 
|> "XSLT", Doug Tidwell, p. 51
|> 
|>   "* The node() node test, which selects all nodes in the current
|>   context, regardless of type.  This includes elements, text, comments
|>   processing instuctions, attributes, and namespace nodes."
|> 
|> "XSLT Programmer's Reference", 2nd ed., Michael Kay, p. 432
|> 
|>   "Since root nodes, attribute nodes and namespace nodes are never
|>   children of another node ... they will never be matched by the
|>   pattern node()."
|> 
|> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt"
|> 
|>   "* node() matches any node other than an attribute node and
|>   the root node"
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> at this point, i'm scared to read anything else for the fear
|> of getting a *fourth* opinion.
|
| Ask Norm.  He helped write the XSLT Recommendation.[1]

Heh. Thanks, Bob :-)

With respect to the opinions above, I believe Tidwell is mistaken, Kay
is correct, and the quoted part of the XSLT Rec is needs an erratum to
add "namespace node" to that description of node(). On the other hand,
that quote comes under the heading "here are some examples of
patterns" so maybe it's not normative.

The place to look for information about node() is the XPath Rec which
says "a node test node() is true for any node of any type whatsoever."

But I think part of the confusion in this thread is that there are two
things to consider: the test and the axis in which the test is
performed.

In particular, there's no test that you can write

  <xsl:template match="node()">
                       ^^^^^^
                       here

to match an attribute or namespace node. That's just not the way that
template rules are matched.

Now, if you use node() with other axes, then it matches every kind of
node (though note that most axes don't match namespace or attribute
nodes, so it isn't the case that you get them with node()).

Going all the way back to the original question, should this template

  <xsl:template match="node()">

match comments and processing-instructions?

I can't find any reading of the XSLT Rec that would support the answer no.
In particular, consider:

  "The built-in template rules are treated as if they were imported
  implicitly before the stylesheet and so have lower import precedence
  than all other template rules. Thus, the author can override a
  built-in template rule by including an explicit template rule."

Since import precedence is the primary discriminator for template
matching, I think the test above should match comment and processing
instruction nodes.

So I think it's an xsltproc bug that they don't.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Unprovided with original learning,
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | unformed in the habits of
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | thinking, unskilled in the arts of
                                   | composition, I resolved to write a
                                   | book.--Edward Gibbon
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/ Patrick Eisenacher <eisenacher@fillmore-labs.com> was heard to say:
| ...looks like you still have some problems, Bob :o(
|
| It seems, it took your mail almost a whole day to reach its
| destination. I got it here at 7pm Sat 8 March (GMT+01), so that should
| be 10am Californian time...
|
| pretty long to squeeze through the wire ;o)

If you send mail to the list with an address that isn't subscribed, it
sits on my laptop until I confirm that it isn't spam. My latency is
effectively infinite compared to the latency on the wire.

Especially with the W3C Tech Plenary earlier this month and a daunting
todo list.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Simplification good!
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | Oversimplification bad!--Larry Wall
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee |
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/ Frédéric Glorieux <f.glorieux@free.fr> was heard to say:
| 	Instead of xhtml transformations, I prefer use common html with
| an xml output, and no namespace declaration. OK, it's not correct, but
| works quite correctly under NS4 _and_ IE; and very useful for later
| pipes.

Why are you doing this instead of using the XHTML stylesheets?

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | God, root, what is difference?"
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | --Pitr, User Friendly; "God is
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | more forgiving." -- Dave Aronson
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/ "Daniel S. Haischt" <sirabyss@gmx.net> was heard to say:
| the ant style/xslt task did not work out for me too, because the task
| did not used the explicitely specified classpath - or at least i
| had the feeling that the classpath wont be used.

There are directives in ant to fix that, no? Hmm. I haven't tried
myself, so maybe I should just keep quiet :-)

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Wisdom comes with age, but
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | sometimes age comes alone.
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee |
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On Sat, 15 Mar 2003, Norman Walsh wrote:

> So I think it's an xsltproc bug that they don't.

yup, i submitted a bugzilla for xsltproc about that already.
my final understanding is that "node()", being short for
"child::node()", should match all of (and only)

1) elements
2) text nodes
3) comments
4) PIs

and that's all.  thus, tidwell is incorrect in his book, and
www.w3.org/TR/xslt should be clarified/corrected as well.

on to fighting with FOP now.

rday






the xslt task got a classpath/classpathref attribute which i used.
i can try it again but i had the feeling it wasn't my fault, tho.

maybe someone other has any ideas about this issue ...

regards

daniel s. haischt
--

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Norman Walsh [mailto:ndw@nwalsh.com]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Marz 2003 22:04
> An: docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org
> Betreff: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> / "Daniel S. Haischt" <sirabyss@gmx.net> was heard to say:
> | the ant style/xslt task did not work out for me too, because the task
> | did not used the explicitely specified classpath - or at least i
> | had the feeling that the classpath wont be used.
> 
> There are directives in ant to fix that, no? Hmm. I haven't tried
> myself, so maybe I should just keep quiet :-)
> 
>                                         Be seeing you,
>                                           norm
> 
> - -- 
> Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | Wisdom comes with age, but
> http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | sometimes age comes alone.
> Chair, DocBook Technical Committee |
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> 
> 




On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 03:57:28PM -0500, Norman Walsh wrote:
> Since import precedence is the primary discriminator for template
> matching, I think the test above should match comment and processing
> instruction nodes.
> 
> So I think it's an xsltproc bug that they don't.

Which has been fixed in CVS the next day it got reported on GNOME bugzilla...

Daniel

-- 
Daniel Veillard      | Red Hat Network https://rhn.redhat.com/
veillard@redhat.com  | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit  http://xmlsoft.org/
http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/



Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> the xslt task got a classpath/classpathref attribute which i used.
> i can try it again but i had the feeling it wasn't my fault, tho.
> 
> maybe someone other has any ideas about this issue ...

many XML related problems seem to disappear when switching back to java 1.3.

styling multiple docbook-docs using the ant style task works fine for me using 
1.3 but i also encounter this sudden death in common/l10n.xsl when using 1.4;

markus




hummm ok that (jdk 1.3) could be a solution. i was using jdk 1.4.1 :(

> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Markus Spath [mailto:mspath@arcor.de]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Marz 2003 23:19
> An: docbook-apps@lists.oasis-open.org
> Cc: daniel.haischt@daniel-s-haischt.biz
> Betreff: Re: AW: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: AW: Re: Problems with ANT and DocBook
> 
> 
> Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
> > the xslt task got a classpath/classpathref attribute which i used.
> > i can try it again but i had the feeling it wasn't my fault, tho.
> > 
> > maybe someone other has any ideas about this issue ...
> 
> many XML related problems seem to disappear when switching back 
> to java 1.3.
> 
> styling multiple docbook-docs using the ant style task works fine 
> for me using 
> 1.3 but i also encounter this sudden death in common/l10n.xsl 
> when using 1.4;
> 
> markus
> 
> 
> 




At 23:19 15/03/2003 +0100, Markus Spath wrote:
>Daniel S. Haischt wrote:
>>the xslt task got a classpath/classpathref attribute which i used.
>>i can try it again but i had the feeling it wasn't my fault, tho.
>>maybe someone other has any ideas about this issue ...
>
>many XML related problems seem to disappear when switching back to java 1.3.


I honestly don't know if I wrote
http://www.dpawson.co.uk/docbook/ant.html when I was using 1.3 or 1.4.

The classpath issue is resolved when calling up ant.
Include the catalog manager classes / jar file in the call classpath.

I'll see if I can dig out my test harnesses, but I don't recall transforming
more than one file at a time.
   Sorry I can't be more help at this time.

regards DaveP






  a couple of quick questions regarding docbook -> FO and beyond.
first, i'm experimenting with FOP for the eventual FO -> PDF
conversion, so i'm using xsltproc to generate the intermediate
FO for the time being.  is there an option with "xsltproc" to
generate "tidy" FO?  or some kind of tidy utility so i can
inspect the generated FO?  currently, AFAICT, the generated
FO consists of perfectly legal but horrendously long text
lines and i see no way to adjust that.  (is there such a
thing as a FOP "viewer"?)

  and, second, is there anything specific i should add/adjust
in a stylesheet for processing docbook, knowing that i want to
generate FO that i will eventually pass to FOP?  from
docbook.sourceforge.net, i see a single "fop.extensions"
parameter, but those extensions apparently consist totally
of PDF bookmarks, so it's not like that represents a major
overhaul of the output.  is there anything else FOP-specific
i should be taking into account regarding stylesheets?

  thanks.

rday

p.s.  it's *way* too nice to be sitting inside on a day like
this.  dang.

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