DocBook Tools' Complexity (Re: DOCBOOK-APPS: Re: DocBook with AbiWord?)

["Matt G." <matt_g_@hotmail.com>]

>I guess it would be helpful if there was an application for
>XML/Docbook where you'd have all the allowed tags offered to you,
>either in a menu or in an XML comment tag or something like that.

That's what I mean by "a good, DTD-aware editor".  They have lots of neat 
features, many of which are most beneficial to users of a new vocabulary 
(such as DTD browsing and menus for what tags are available at a certain 
spot).


>And you talk about the tools, well that's another bottleneck. The
>tools assume a technical level that most beginers don't have (even
>if they've worked installing software before.)

Aren't there some RPMs that give you neatly packaged tools like db2html and 
db2pdf?

There was recently an announcement (I think it was on this list, but I can't 
find it) about a GUI tool for customizing stylesheet parameters and 
generating output.  It comes with all the pieces required (i.e. DTD, 
stylesheets, XSLT processor, XSL-FO formatter, etc.).  It was by a company 
called Command Line software, if I recall correctly.


Again, for some people, such bundled tools will meet their needs,
and I think that's fine.  Even if they don't, it's still a place to start.

For my organization, I download and build all the tools we use, for all of 
the platforms we have, and install them on our network.  I have versioned 
export directories, where each component gets installed, and I use makefiles 
(with user-overridable variables) to point to which versions of which 
components/tools to use.  All this infrastructure (plus stylesheet 
customization) is shared between different projects with their own 
buildsystems.  Since my XML DocBook buildsystem module is checked into the 
same CVS repository that everyone uses, this is quite simple (even if we had 
separate repositories, I could just cut versioned releases of it).


>let's not forget that there are people out there using Docbook
>who use it only because the tools where already installed on
>their system

Unfortunately, I not only had to deploy all this infrastructure, but also do 
quite a bit of evangelism to convince anyone to use DocBook, at my job 
(well, except those of us who had been using LaTeX :).  All this, and 
neither documentation nor system administration are my primary 
responsibility!  (I develop software, and I'd like to think I'm pretty good 
at it. ;)


>and that documentation can be a two-edged sword

Huh?  I don't think there's any disadvantage to the level of detail of TDG.  
Maybe the problem is really just a lack of newbie-oriented intro material or 
hands-on training.

Like I keep saying, the advantages of DocBook aren't free.  You can make it 
simpler to deploy and use, but beyond a certain point, you start to pay a 
high price for this (in terms of loosing benefits that are supposedly among 
the reasons you're trying to use DocBook).  Users should be made aware of 
this, so they can make an informed decision, based on their needs and the 
resources at their disposal.

Unfortunately, tools and technologies are often oversold; especially when 
there's money to be made.


Matt Gruenke


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