Re: DOCBOOK-APPS: Again: Apache FOP,Docbook: Features / Versions,"complete" Docbook distribution

[carlos@cvc.edu (Carlos)]

On 01/14/02 8:02, "Alexander Schatten" <alasan@gmx.net> wrote:

> well, I do understand this. however: unfortunately it seems to me the
> same like in other (open source) projects: microsoft was once blamed for
> their setup program: only "dummies" would use this, bla bla. now even
> linux software authors found it useful to put their software into an rpm
> and (how could this happen *g*) even Cocoon 2 is now easy to install
> without needing to rename libraries and so on.
> 
And no one has said that RPMs are good. Granted they make your life easier
when trying to start with a project, but having to hunt down the correct
version of another RPM. As for the cocoon project, they've had to follow the
servlet spec and the .war files they use still are not a good solution
(that's for another discussion).


> the same here and in other similar projects: what I feel angry about is,
> that many of these projects suffer on two things:
> 
> -- setup and installation
The tradeoff IMO is whether we create bigger packages that have everything
we need in one place and, therefore, are harder to keep up to date or
smaller packages that are easier to maintain but hard for beginners to use?

> -- documentation
> 
> where documentation is really a hard thing, this is really a shame,
> considering how much effort and time is e.g. put into the docbook
> stylesheets... and an expert would need, lets say 20 minutes to explain
> how to setup and install all this stuff together.
As a trainer I can tell you that it's simply not true.

First off, you'd have to write/explain every single permutation of tools
that can be used to generate HTML/XHTML/PDF/PS/etc.

Second, the fact that I can explain to you how to do something doesn't mean
you'll be able to do it. Case in point, the Docbook FAQ explains how to use
CSS style sheets but just search the docbook-apps list for CSS and how many
times people like Norm and Bob Sayton have given the same answer

> 
> what is this time compared to the hours, days and weeks put into the
> rest of the work?
> 
> I am rather stubborn and want to get the thing running; but as I
> mentioned before: 98 to 99% of all others take a look at for example
> docbook; play around for an hour, dont get the stuff running, and (this
> is the main point and danger!!) never come back, because the say: "this
> is much too complex and does not work".
How much of that is Docbook's problem and how much of that is a problem with
the Docbook Toolchain either for XSL or DSSSL?

If we could all agree on a toolset to recommend to beginners, then it would
be easier to write instructions for them and I'd be more than delighted to
write it myself.

Carlos

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