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Subject: RE: [docbook-tc] DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 16December 2009

I am not sure my action item from the meeting is exactly what I have
covered in the attached set of files.  I have tried to explain how we
currently view help systems and how we build and, to a certain extent,
deploy them.  I feel that while the assembly model needs to be output
agnostic in many ways, it also needs to be able to deal with the
specifics of an output if it is going to be able to effectively 
describe something like a help system.  It may be that part of what I
have expressed as elements and attributes in the past should have
been done with processing instructions, but if assemblies are to
describe documents, they need to be flexible enough to describe things
that are not books at their core.

The attached ZIP file contains four items (please start with 

  - help-model.txt
  - help-operation-node.png
  - help-toc-node.png
  - sys-structure.xml

Sorry it is not shorter, I didn't have much time to work on it.

Best Regards,
Larry Rowland

-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Walsh [mailto:ndw@nwalsh.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 12:16 PM
To: docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [docbook-tc] DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 16 December 2009

> DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Agenda: 16 December 2009
> =============================================================
> The DocBook Technical Committee met on Wednesday, 16 December 2009
> at 01:00p EDT (10:00a PDT, 17:00GMT, 18:00BST, 19:00CEST, 02:00JST+,
> 022:30p India+) for 90 minutes.
> Agenda
> 1. Roll call

Regrets: Bob

Present: Norm, Scott, Larry, Dick, Jirka, Paul

> 2. Accepting the minutes [1] of the previous meeting.


> 3. Next meeting: 20 January 2010

No regrets heard.

> 4. Review of the agenda.


> 5. Review of open action items
>  a. Gershon to develop a reltable example.


>  b. Larry to publish assembly schema with last month's changes.


>  c. Norm to prepare proposal for full and simplified assembly
> versions.


>  d.  Bob to organize a meeting to discuss linking in modular DocBook.


>  e.  Norm to develop a proposal for maintaining the DocBook websites.


>  f.  Norm to develop schema changes for inlines for discussion at
>      next meeting.


http://markmail.org/message/5hb3kxrf3xggc3vi or

>  g. Norm to develop a list of use cases and requirements for
> transclusion.


>  h.  Bob to add agenda item for transclusion to next meeting.


>  i.  Norm to better document indexterm placement.


> 6.  Status of new edition of DocBook: The Definitive Guide

Technical review ongoing; plan to submit the final manuscript to O'Reilly
in mid-January.

> 7.  Publishing Subcommittee report.

Nothing to report this month.

> 8.  eLearning Subcommittee report.

Scott: We held the kickoff meeting. One additional prospective member
showed up. Plans to begin in earnest in the beginning of the new year.

> 9.  Linking in modular DocBook.

See Bob's minutes from yesterday. Inline relatedlinks and
relationships from assemblies are two different ways of expressing the
same thing. Documentation and implementation stratgies TBD.

> 10.  Transclusion in DocBook.



Norm: I started the thread only a few days ago, perhaps we wait a bit

Larry: We implemented a transclusion element because XInclude wasn't
stable at the time. We added the ability to specify a source grammar
to make it easier to pull together things from different grammars. I
don't know if that's a requirement, but it made things easier for us.

Norm: That seems a little heavyweight for a transclusion element, but
I can see how it would be useful.

Revisit next month after the thread has cooked a bit longer.

(Bob, please leave this on the agenda next month.)

> 11.  DocBook assembly schema.

Norm's documentation attempts:


Larry's latest:


Larry's summary:

 - Added the 'suppress' attribute to output
 - Added chunking control
 - Added name attribute to transform element
 - Added transform attribute to the output element
 - Added a transform attribute and left the grammar attribute there
 - Removed the word output from all of the attribute names on the output element

Norm attempts to summarize his document.

Norm proposes that the output of an assembly is a single document.

Larry pushes back, suggesting that the output is a document or
collection of documents.

Norm and Larry clearly don't agree completely on the high-level
processing expectations. While Norm wants the assembly to be
output-agnostic, Larry has quite different processing expectations
depending on what sort of output is needed.

ACTION: Larry to write up his view of the processing expectations of a
structure element and how it has to work to satisfy his needs.

> 12.  Review of Requests for Enhancement
>    To browse a specific RFE, enter the URL (on one line):
>      http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&;;
>      group_id=21935&atid=384107&aid=XXXX
>    RFEs to revisit for 6.0
>      1907003  biblioid content model too broad
>    RFEs to be considered
>      1679665  Add better support for modular documentation
>      2770858  Add limited emphasis to ubiquitous inlines

Norm describes the proposal.

Proposal: Accept the proposal


>      2791288  add quote to corpauthor and gui elements

ACTION: Norm to review corpauthor in this context. Does 2770858 apply
to it?

>      2820190  add a topic element
>      2820947  Ability to transclude text
>      2821653  indexterms in footnotes

Didn't we agree to 653 last month? What was the result of the experiments.

>      2900425  Remove common linking attributes from indexterm

Proposal: Remove linking attributes from indexterms?


>      2900458  Make xml:id required on start-of-range indexterms

Proposal: Make the xml:id attribute required, if it doesn't upset the validator


>      2907124  Allow personal name components directly in bibliomset

Proposal: Make them available directly.


>      2907125  Remark should allow all inlines

Proposal: Allow all inlines in remark.


>      2907126  msgaud/level/orig in simplemsgentry are spelled wrong

Proposal: Fix the bug.

Norm: In 5.1 or 6.0?

Larry: One option is to add them with the correct spellings in 5.1 and
make removing the broken spellings backwards incompatible in 6.0.

Proposal: Add the correct spellings in 5.1, remove the broken ones in 6.0.


>      2907129  orgname in address

Proposal: Add orgname to address.


>      2907131  SImpleSect in Colophon?

Proposal: Add simplesect to Colophon


> [1]
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/docbook-tc/200911/msg00014.html

Any other business

ACTION: Bob to add discussion of indexterm in footnote to the agenda
for next month. (So we can be sure we come to closure).

None heard.

                                        Be seeing you,

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | "Abstraction, abstraction and
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | abstraction." This is the answer
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | to the question, "What are the
                                   | three most important words in
                                   | programming?"--Paul Hudak


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