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Subject: RE: [docbook-tc] Fw: [docbook] informaltable inside table

The CALS table model does not support tables within 
entry.  There is something called entrytable, but
that's not the same thing (and it's not supported
by any tools of which I am aware).

So I think it's a bug if table is allowed within entry.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Stayton [mailto:bobs@sagehill.net]
> Sent: Friday, 2010 February 26 18:44
> To: DocBook Technical Committee
> Subject: [docbook-tc] Fw: [docbook] informaltable inside table
> This message raised an issue that I'm not understanding.  It appears
> that the Cals
> table <entry> element in DocBook 5 does indeed permit <table>, but not
> <informaltable>.  I don't remember allowing <table> inside <entry>, so
> I'm wondering if this is a bug?
> Bob Stayton
> Sagehill Enterprises
> bobs@sagehill.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "maxwell" <maxwell@umiacs.umd.edu>
> To: <docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:28 AM
> Subject: [docbook] informaltable inside table
> We're using DocBook 5 to write grammars, and one of the constructs we
> use
> a lot is tables.  These are mostly used to display paradigms, and
> frequently a cell in a paradigm needs to display several kinds of
> information.  An example cell might look like this:
>    ko'tan   k-o'tan
>             my-heart
> (Actually, the grammar we're using now has an Arabic script form on the
> left and its romanized form on the right, but I don't trust email to
> transmit that correctly.)  Some cells are more complex, but the general
> point is that because we want things to line up vertically (and other
> alignment issues), the obvious solution is to use some kind of a table
> inside these table cells.
> The most obvious solution would be to make the cells be <entrytbl>s
> instead of <entry>s.  That didn't work, because in some cases we need
> to
> have paradigm cells span columns and/or rows.  (This happens when a
> single
> form in a language has more than one use in the language.  An example
> would
> be standard Spanish, where a present tense verb ending in -an or -en is
> used for both second and third person plural.)  While <entrytbl>s can
> span
> columns, the DocBook standard (and the CALS standard on which it is
> based)
> doesn't allow them to span rows.
> So the next solution would be to put a <table> or an <informaltable>
> inside an <entry>, thus:
>    <table>
>      ...
>        <entry>
>           <table>...</table>
>        </entry>
>    </table>
> This is perfectly possible, but it forces us to put a <title> in the
> inner
> <table>, which we don't want.  We do want <title>s on the outer table,
> so I
> thought this would work:
>    <table>
>      ...
>        <entry>
>           <informaltable>...</informaltable>
>        </entry>
>    </table>
> Unfortunately, DocBook forbids this: "informaltable must not occur in
> the
> descendants of table." That comes from
> http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/cals.table.html; there is also a
> schematron rule enforcing this at
> http://www.docbook.org/xml/5.0/sch/docbook.sch:
>    <s:rule context="db:table">
>      ...
>      <s:assert test="not(.//db:informaltable)">
>      informaltable must not occur in the descendants of table
>      </s:assert>
>      ...
>    </s:rule>
> What is the reason for preventing <informaltable>s from appearing as a
> descendant of <table>?  This limitation doesn't appear to come from the
> CALS standard, which does not (AFAICT) define <informaltable>.  It
> seems to
> make good sense (to me!) to allow tables without titles inside of
> tables
> with titles; in fact, I can't think of a situation where I would want a
> <table> with a <title> to be embedded inside another <table>.
> In sum, as long as a <table> can be embedded inside an <entry>, I think
> it
> should be possible to embed an <informaltable> there too.  I'm posting
> here
> first in case there's some good reason that I can't think of for not
> allowing this; I'll submit an RFE later, if I don't get push back.
>    Mike Maxwell
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