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Subject: RE: [docbook-tc] Very rough proposal for DocBook transclusions

Hi Jirka,

I finally had time to catch up on this thread. Thanks for the progressively better drafts.

I'm pleased to see the @name attribute replace the element content. I do believe this is a better architecture.

With conditional transclusion, or transclusion of content that contains conditions, I think we need to state whether processors first resovle the conditions and then perform the transclusion, or first transclude and then resolve the conditions. In DITA we see some use cases where the order in which these things are done results in a different result, but we didn't catch this in time to say anything normative about it. I'd like to hope we can address this processing order issue in DocBook out the door in order to ensure different processors result give the same results. I know Eliot Kimber had some use caes in DITA that demonstrated the issue. I'll ask him offline for pointers to those examples so I can provide some examples marked up in DocBook we can use to test and document this. I'd like to see examples 14 and 15 be followed by a more complex exmaple that demonstrates the different result depending on processing order, so that we can also determine which order should be normative and correct per the DocBook spec.

In Procedure 1, Step 2, is the circular link to Step 2 correct? I think we mean to continue with Step 3, unless I'm missing something. Or is the idea to then try step 2 again but further back up the XPath ladder? (IOW if the closest <definitions> does not lead to successful resolution, we try the second-closest, then the third-closest, and so on?)

I'm wondering whether we should use @linkscope or rather call it @refscope since it's scoping the <ref> element. I don't feel too strongly about this one, but the thought about possible user confusion came to mind.

Why does @linkscope="user" result in no IDREF adjustment? I think it may be more intuitive if a value of "none" results in no IDREF adjustment being done.

I would like us to add an example showing transclusion of profiled (conditionalized) elements. Let me try to knock something up after consulting with Eliot.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirka@kosek.cz] 
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 12:22 PM
To: Rowland, Larry
Cc: Norman Walsh; docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [docbook-tc] Very rough proposal for DocBook transclusions

Jirka Kosek wrote:

> Thanks for very useful insight. I will try to digest all input in next 
> draft.

Hi folks,

please find attached next draft of tranclusion proposal. I tried to address all issues that have arisen during call and in email communications. Instead of providing some formal definition I have focused on providing examples -- I think that from them it is easier to see how this is supposed to work. Once we are sure about how transclusions should behave I can prepare more formal definition appropriate for TDG.

I think that proposal is now quite developed regarding this "duplicate ID" issue. However as I don't have personal experience with sort of manual solution to problem using prefixes I would especially ask Larry if he can check whether proposal is addressing everything he had in mind.

I'm also attaching sample files and very sketchy XSLT 2.0 based transclusion implementation if anyone is interested.

I would like to start discussion now on email, so we can develop proposal way further before next telcon.

Thanks and have a nice day,


  Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirka@kosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
       Professional XML consulting and training services
  DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing
 OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO JTC1/SC34 member

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