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Subject: Re: DOCBOOK: Markup for personal names

[messing up a bit]

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Wroth, M. LTC         MATH wrote:

> <personalname><givenname>Mark</givenname><secondname>B.</secondname><surname>Wroth</surname><lineal>Jr</lineal></personalname>

I much prefer <forename> to <givenname>, and the simpler <name>
to <personalname>.

> and
> <personalname>Mark B. Wroth Jr</personalname>

This one sounds fair as a standalone element.

> nickname: a personal name, usually bestowed by others.  In some
> cases it is used in place of, and in others in addition to, the
> given name.  Usually informal.
informal like "the Ripper"? ;)

> locative: a name element indicating a place of origin or
> residence.  Can be viewed as a form of nickname, but is almost
> always used in addition to a personal name of some sort.

Right, like Geoffrey of Monmouth.

> patronymic (or matronymic): a name indicating who one's parent
> is.  It may serve the function of a surname (e.g. Icelandic
> practice) or it may be used as a nickname (e.g. Russian
> practice).

In Spain we use a "first surname" (the fatherīs surname) and a
"second surname", whereas in Portugal the fatherīs surname goes
in second place and the motherīs in first place.

This is confusing in anglo-saxon countries, as I used to be given
my forename, then my "first surname" as an initial, then my
"second surname" as my only surname, in official documents and

I could use an attribute for the surname element.(*)

> lineal marker: a particle added to distinguish between members
> of the same lineage with the same name (e.g. "junior/senior").
> honorific: a spoken form used in address (e.g. "Mr.", "Dr",
> "the Honorable")
> title: a reference to rank held by the individual.  This may be
> a form of address (e.g. most military ranks), but need not be:
> there are a number of ranks where the form of address used is
> not obviously related to the rank itself).

Wouldnīt it be simpler to include īroleī attribute in the
honorific element, like "academic", "military", "religious",
... ?

> common attribute: 
> 	position (shows the place in the name order the word
> 	normally appears)
> Element given
> 	attributes: role (e.g. baptismal, nickname, locative ...)
> Element surname
> 	May contain itself (e.g. <surname><surname>Vega</surname>
> 	y <surname>Asturias</surname></surname>

<surname lineage="paternal"> vs. <surname lineage="maternal">

Some countries will use other ways to give surnames.  In old
times it was common for someone to bear a form of the fatherīs
forename as the surname:

Rodrigo -> Rodriguez, Herman -> Hermansson

This might deserve an attribute for History docs.

Also, in anglo-saxon countries (and other countries) the bride is
given the groomīs name after marrying, so:

<surname lineage="marital">

BTW, while Italians use only one surname, an Italian friend of
mine "adopted" his godfatherīs surname as he wanted to honour
hime this way.  So, "Riccardo Martini" became "Riccardo Bellini
Martini"... for which case:

<surname lineage="acquired">Bellini</surname>
<surname lineage="paternal">Martini</surname>

Other complex cases could be:

<forename role="religious">John Paul <line>II</line></forename>,
nče <name><forename>Karol</forename>

(may be other religious leaders do take names too... the Lamas
do... and Christian nuns too).


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