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Subject: DOCBOOK: DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 31 Jan 2003

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| DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 31 Jan 2003
| ========================================================

[Rescheduled from 21 Jan 2003]

| The DocBook Technical Committee will met on Friday, 31 January 2003
| at 01:00p EST (10:00a PST, 18:00GMT, 19:00CET, 03:00JST+) 
| for 90 minutes.

| Agenda
| 1. Roll call

Dennis Evans and Sabine Ocker have resigned.


Steve Cogorno, Sun Microsystems
Dick Hamilton, HP
Nancy Harrison, Rational Software [-14:00]
Scott Hudson, Sun Microsystems (Prospective)
Bob Stayton, Individual Member
Norman Walsh, Sun Microsystems, Chair
Mark Johnson, Individual Member


Paul Grosso, Arbortext


Michael Smith, Individual Member

| 2. Accepting the minutes[1] of the previous meeting


| 3. Review of the agenda

Charter update.

| 4. Review of open action items {5 min}
|    a. Norm to follow-up on RFE 562343: <packagename> element


|    b. Norm to write better documentation for option/optional


|    c. Mike to consider possible attribute values on literallayout for
|       addressing RFE 613293 (generalize programlisting)


|    d. Norm to review using Trang to generate DTDs and W3C XML Schemas


|    e. Norm to make sure discussion of Task/Topic is on the agenda next month
|       Completed
|    f. Paul to summarize the differences between the HTML and CALS table models
|       Completed[2]
|    g. Norm to put HTML and CALS tables on the agenda again next month
|       Completed
|    h. Norm to post simplified ToC proposal to the list again


|    i. Norm to check on the future-use status of simplified ToCs.
|       Completed (it's a V6.0 change)

Charter update: The TC process requires us to notify Karl Best if we
amend our charter. We failed to do so in October, so Karl has just now
begun reviewing it. At the OASIS board level there is some discussion
about what a TC must or may say about IPR in its charter. We may be
asked to revise our charter text at some point.

| 5. Task/Topic

Bob: My take was to leave procedure pretty much as is and then to
possibly construct something larger to handle tasks/topics.

Norm: It would be our first sort-of floating container. Like sidebar
but more general.

Steve: We look at this like a very special kind of section. The Task
element can appear anywhere that a Sect2 or Sect3 can appear. We don't
allow them at Sect4 or at the top of a chapter. They behave like any
other kind of sections.

Nancy: So they can't float inside para text. They have to be siblings
to other sections.

Steve: That's right. It's not like a figure or table, it works like a

Nancy: So you could have a Sect3 and then a Task and then another Sect3.

Steve: An attribute on section doesn't work because the tasks have
very specific structures.

Norm: So this is really a question of content models. You want tasks
to behave like sections, but have a very different (or constrained)
content model.

Bob: How do we make sure we get something that's more flexible for the
general needs of all DocBook users.

Steve explains the contents of the Sun Task element. He will publish
content models to the list. The full model includes five new elements.

Nancy: I wonder if the really salient piece here is that this element
must have as a child a procedure.

Steve: Yes, it must absolutely.

Nancy: If we were approaching it as a task topic, we might make this
the requirement.

Norm: This relates to Bob's earlier question of making this broad
enough for the general user community.

Norm: Should we try to write a formal requirements document to get a
clearer picture of what we're trying to do.

Dick: We have found that procedure sometimes need more stuff around it.

Nancy: It would also be helpful to get some sort of requirements from
people who have a different perspective.

ACTION: Steve to provide a first draft of a requirements document.

| 6. CALS+HTML Table Model

Bob: Cutting and pasting of HTML tables is going to not be very
useful. (See his pointer to the number of tables that contained markup
on the docbook-tc list.) I think combining the models complicates the
model and doesn't offer much advantage.

Dick, Steve: agreement

Norm: If we were starting over, I don't think there'd be much support for

Bob: And using HTML tables would encourage people to think they could
use other HTML markup.

Norm: There seems to be no support for this proposal. Out of
consideration for Paul who has been the strongest proponent, I think
I'd like to leave it on the agenda for another month.

| 9. Review of Requests for Enhancement
|    To browse a specific RFE, enter the URL (on one line):
|           http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&amp;
|           group_id=21935&amp;atid=384107&amp;aid=XXXX
|    where XXXX is the RFE number.
|     623524 (Re)Consider "choicelist" markup

Wait for Mike to explain his motivation.

|     638456 RFE add a <translator> tag

Many folks rely on companies and not individuals.

Steve: I wonder if we can have a compromise by suggesting some role values.

Norm: We could use a class value.

Nancy: I'm usually interested more in being able to track who did the
translation. Our docs get translated by different groups. It would
help me if I could know who did it.

Norm: So let's add a class attribute on othercredit for identifying
the nature of the credit.

Bob: That doesn't help with translator companies.

Norm: The DocBook solution would be to add a 'corpcredit' element.

Bob: In managing translations, we use English as our primary source
and then somewhere we'd like to manage who translated into each

Norm: Add class attribute to othercredit. Initial suggestion:
graphicdesigner, productioneditor, copyeditor, technicaleditor,

ACTION: Norm to post to list for other suggestions.

Norm: Add corpcredit element to support crediting organizations?

Bob: I think so because that's often the only information you have.

Norm: Corpcredit would have class attribute with the same values as

ACTION: Norm to post proposal to the list.

|     655526 funcprototype enhancement

ACTION: Norm to post proposal to the list.

|     660044 Controlling line numbering in verbatims

Bob/Steve: What people really want is the ability to cross reference
to line numbers.

Norm: So you can use programlistingco or co in programlisting.

Bob: Line numbers aren't really useful if you can't cross reference to

[Nancy drops off]

Some general agreement that this is a reasonable request given that we
allow line numbers.

Norm: We considering adding 'startinglinenumber' with a decimal number.

Norm: We considering adding 'continuation' either (continues|restarts).

ACTION: Norm to propose these to the list.

|     671746 Addition of ulink or similar to author

Norm: propose that we reject this citing Bob's followup on the tracker item.


|     570068 Addendum: A handful of other suggested values that Elliotte Rusty Harold
|            posted in a message to docbook-apps.
|            CDROM
|            DVD
|            WikiWikiWeb
|            gopher
|            BBS

Proposal: Accept these additional values in all lowercase:



|     571998: Addendum: discuss "default"

Proposal: leave closed. Address defaults in specific circumstances if they arise.


|     615473: Addendum: what about float and floatstyle on other objects?

Nevermind. Can't recall what I wanted to discuss.

ACTION: Norm to put pointers to the annotation proposals back on the
agenda for next month.


|    The following RFEs have been moved to the bottom of this agenda in order
|    to make sure that all RFEs get fairly discussed.
|     413389 Enhance METHODNAME and VARNAME
|     436067 splitting tech.char.class
|     473365 Allow optional in funcprototype
|     482818 Simplify ToC content model
|     514435 Allow reference within refentry
|     541444 caption in mediaobjectco
|     558443 include storage info in metadata
|     562343 <packagename> element
|     564776 process/service/daemon/server markup
|     565637 Associate non-inline image with link
|     565716 URL and URN markup
|     565905 Add xrefstyle attribute
|     570068 Online values for pubwork
|     571996 Add 'namespace' inline element
|     571998 Add 'default' inline element
|     573419 Add bidirectional text overrides
|     573812 Allow blockinfo on blockquote
|     574880 Add annotation element
|     582705 Namespace convention for MathML Module
|     582822 VARARG and FUNCDEF together
|     613293 Generalize programlisting
|    The following RFEs are awaiting action items
|     431411 RFE 70: add generic linking capability
|     472229 Allow HTML tables
|     522552 Add title attribute to <ulink> element
|     609061 Add new Step sibling element Alternative
|     621564 New element Task and children
|     640090 Add 'Steps' element for grouping steps
|    The following RFEs are identified as V6.0 or later
|     531851 Remove inline person name elements
|     532088 Remove RevHistory from qandaentry
| [1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/docbook-tc/200212/msg00002.html
| [2] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/docbook-tc/200212/msg00003.html

                                        Be seeing you,

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | In great affairs men show
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | themselves as they wish to be
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | seen, in small things they show
                                   | themselves as they are.--Chamfort
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