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Subject: Re: [DBX5] Is this a DocBook document?

Hash: SHA1

/ Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@pinkjuice.com> was heard to say:
| Norman Walsh wrote:
|> Hash: SHA1
|> / Tobias Reif <tobiasreif@pinkjuice.com> was heard to say:
|> | Processing tools such as validators need to be able to find out the
|> | main language of a document, so that they can know which schema(s)
|> | apply.
|> Another view is that schemas are "out of band" for validators. A
|> document can be validated (even successfully!:-) under many different
|> schemas.
| Sure! There's a misunderstanding, we don't disagree AFAICS. The whole

Yep, I was just putting both views into the discussion.

|> I have mixed feelings about a version attribute. There are lots of
|> DocBook documents that are valid under many different versions. If I
|> write a 4.2 document today and it's still valid under 4.3, what does
|> version=4.2 mean?
| It means that the document is written in 4.2, and the assertion holds
| true. If the assertion that the document is written in 4.3 also holds
| true, then this doesn't invalidate the first assertion.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings. One of the things that's different
about DocBook (as compared to SVG, XSLT, etc.) is that it has *a lot*
of potential "top level" elements. That means adding version to a lot of

|> | 2.
|> | xml:version=""
|> | (doesn't exist yet)
|> | especiall needed if the language is not version 1.0 or if the
|> | namespace name doesn't contain version info (eg is the same for all
|> | versions, which I prefer).
|> I don't think xml:version is very likely.
| How can my XSLT find out if it supports the version of DocBook that
| the document is written in? Various languages might choose different
| names for the version attribute (as with profile and SVG's
| baseProfile), thus standardization would help
| When the document doesn't have a DTD document type declaration (no FPI
| etc), then how can tools find out which language is used? What
| schema(s) should my validator apply?
| If there wil be no "xml:version" attribute, then I still see the need
| for a "version" attribute in DBX5+.

The problem with xml:version is, what does it mean in mixed namespace

  <x:v5tagname y:attr="v4+ only value" z:attr="v2+ only value">

| "The 'baseProfile' attribute on the outermost 'svg' element must have
| the value "tiny" for SVG Tiny content, and "basic" for SVG Basic
| content. The 'baseProfile' attribute on nested child 'svg' elements is
| ignored. The SVG 1.1 specification states that the 'version' attribute
| of the outermost 'svg' element in SVG 1.1 content must have the value
| "1.1"."

Interesting. If we add version, we might want to add something for profile.

| If we want to escape reliance on DTD, we need to find new ways for
| providing the information that we provided via DTD doctype
| declarations. Namespace name and version attribute will also have the
| advantage of being accessible from XSLT, thus are also useful in
| documents which do have a doctype declaration (and ns/version can also
| be used with inlined fragments).

PIs would also work.

 <?schema language="http://relaxng.org/ns/structure/1.0";
          public-id="-//OASIS//??? DocBook V4.3b4//EN"

                                        Be seeing you,

- -- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>      | The fundamental delusion of
http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/ | humanity is to suppose that I am
Chair, DocBook Technical Committee | here and you are out
                                   | there.--Yasutani Roshi
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