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Subject: RE: [docbook] Why do formalparas only allow one para?
I understand the frustration, and have dealt with the problem in the past by using variablelists (as you described), by using lists within the para for enumeration of the content items, and by redesigning the content to use sections when appropriate, because they all provide a method for the reader to determine that I have finished the formal element. Part of designing solutions that circumvent DocBook's structure is to make sure the reader can tell what the author intended, since the reader frequently does not have access to the markup that shows the containment relationship, and the format of the output is all that the reader has available. The current render of a formalpara does not provide any indication after the para that the formalpara has ended. If you do modify the DTD, I would recommend adding some sort of obvious marker following the last element of the formalpara to indicate it has ended. The reason I say last element is that once you open up the question of more than one para, you also have to deal with the question of what else is legal inside the new thing you have created? How about lists, figures, mediaobjects, and all the other block level elements?
I sympathize with the problem, since I have struggled with it in the past, but please make sure the reader can tell what the writer intended -- that has always been a goal in my development of transforms and grammars that feed them. Coming up with new designs for markup is pretty easy, making sure they can effectively communicate the author's intent is much harder since the reader does not usually have access to the markup, just a formatted page (or audio stream or whatever the markup controls -- Markup, it's not just for text anymore!).
Best Regards,
Larry Rowland
From: Kate.Wringe@sybase.com [mailto:Kate.Wringe@sybase.com]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:17 AM
To: Dave Pawson
Cc: David Cramer; docbook@lists.oasis-open.org; Jirka Kosek; Scott Hudson
Subject: Re: [docbook] Why do formalparas only allow one para?
What we need is a free-floating container element that takes a title and allows other block elements (e.g, indexterms, paras, lists, etc.,) within it.
We want a container element because it is useful for reuse and relocation of content. We want the element to be free-floating because we need to be able
to put the element anywhere and have other content elements follow it (including itself).
The problem with bridgeheads is that they are just titles and you can't show the relationship between the title and the content that follows it. To xinclude you'd have
xinclude the bridgehead as well as each element that follows. We would prefer to have one container element that you could put an ID on and be able to conditionalize it and/or xinclude it.
We actually have two cases where we need free-floating container elements with titles:
1) One where the title is not inline -- this element would be akin to simplesect if simplesect was not non-floating.
2) One where the title is inline -- this element would be akin to formalpara if formalpara allowed you to have more than one para and allowed other block elements.
Currently for 1) we use sidebars instead of bridgeheads because we needed a sub-section-level container element with a title, that could be used anywhere and multiple times within a section.
Simplesect, because it is non-floating, did not meet our requirements.
We are looking for a solution for 2) because formalparas do not meet our needs, but they are the best alternative we have right now.
Thanks again,
Kate
Dave Pawson <davep@dpawson.co.uk> 07/24/2009 12:25 AM
ToDavid Cramer <dcramer@motive.com> ccScott Hudson <scott.hudson@flatironssolutions.com>, Kate.Wringe@sybase.com, Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>, docbook@lists.oasis-open.org SubjectRe: [docbook] Why do formalparas only allow one para?
Why not use a bridgehead and multiple paras?
formalpara is singular? Hence one para?
regards
--
Dave Pawson
XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
http://www.dpawson.co.uk
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