Raw minutes chat trace meeting #203 on 2018-02-05

["Mr. Stefan Hagen" <stefan@hagen.link>]

[18:04] Stefan Hagen: 1. Welcome by the chair (Stefan Hagen)
[18:05] Stefan Hagen: 2. Minutes taker
All write into the chat, Stefan assembles and uploads into document area.

3. Roll call
[18:05] Stefan Hagen: Quorate AK, FC, DH, SH
[18:05] Stefan Hagen: Ernst Jan sent regrets
[18:05] Stefan Hagen: 4. Approval of the agenda
[18:06] Stefan Hagen: Agenda approved unchanged as published
[18:06] Stefan Hagen: 5. Approval of minutes from previous calls
5.1 Minutes from call #202 on 2018-01-29:
URL = https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/62441/weg_dss_minutes-202.txt
[18:07] Stefan Hagen: Minutes approved unchanged as published
[18:07] Stefan Hagen: 6. Roadmap for 2018
URL = https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dss-x/201802/msg00010.html
6.1 Milestone DSS 2.0 Core/Base/MVP CSD01 stage
[18:07] Stefan Hagen: As a TC member, I want to offer a CSD01 of a select set of work products for DSS 2.0
    to public review in June 2018, so that the wider audience and community of users can
    comment and help further fine-tune the development before the summer vacations.
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: AK: Suggests to go for a CSD01 plus Public review in March
[18:09] Stefan Hagen: SH: Thinks this is realistic, but of course brave
[18:13] Stefan Hagen: Detlef also deems this plausible
[18:13] Stefan Hagen: Frank asks for role of public review
[18:13] Stefan Hagen: Stefan shortly hints at the TC process  and the possible benefits of early public review
[18:14] Stefan Hagen: Andreas and Detlef remind everyone of the benefits of early review in the public and also, that we already announce target dates around last years' December
[18:15] Stefan Hagen: AK: We urgently need feedback from the outside esp. with Multi-Syntax XML and JSON posture
[18:15] Stefan Hagen: All agree on time frame and will tackle the scope i.e. what will be in the first deliverable batch
[18:16] Stefan Hagen: 6.2 Milestone DSS 2.0 Popular Profiles CSD01 stage
    As a TC member, I want to offer additional select profiles as CSD01 in October 2018
    for public review, so that a broad faceted group of current DSS 1.0 and future DSS 2.0
    users can clearly analyze where migration and implementation will leda them and enables
    us as a group to harvest the collected feedback.
[18:22] Stefan Hagen: Frank mentions the ETSI upcoming plugfest which might be a perfect occasion to announce a CSD01 or CS01
[18:23] Stefan Hagen: Frank and Detlef shortly discuss if there will be the next such plugtest and what the details / scope will be - so if we can come up with a stable draft before the preparation for such a pflgtest starts we might be able to profit from the event directly by participating
[18:23] Stefan Hagen: Detlef hopes thus fro early March
[18:27] Stefan Hagen: Stefan suggests May 2018 as target date which all assume to be tough
[18:28] Stefan Hagen: 6.3 Milestone DSS 2.0 Core/Base/MVP/EssentialProfiles CSD02/CS01 stage
    As TC member, I want either CSD02 - if required - and CS01 it possible, to be available
    for public review and IPR safe guarded implementation in December 2018.
[18:29] Stefan Hagen: Stefan suggests to come back next meeting with a harmonised roadmap, as we hope for an eventual earlier CS01 (core et al.) so maybe a split from other profiles contains herein and the results from the second milestone public review might need shift into a later period of work
[18:30] Stefan Hagen: All agree
[18:30] Stefan Hagen: 6.4 Milestone DSS 2.0 supportive but supplementary non-normative materials
    As a TC member, I want non-normative guidance documents covering e.g.
    "Best practices for migration from DSS 1.0 to DSS 2.0" or
    "Bridging between XML and JSON implementations of DSS 1.0 and 2.0" (and the like)
    to be started as soon as possible, to move non-normative advice from the core document
    and at the same time offer quick start help for users early on and in an easy to digest
    and look up format / packaging.
[18:32] Stefan Hagen: Stefan suggeststo also move discussion to the next meeting with work stream 4 - maybe even with more specific artefacts / dimension
[18:32] Stefan Hagen: All agree
[18:32] Stefan Hagen: 7. Core 2.0 issues discussion
7.1 Topology of schemas - structure and relation
[18:35] Stefan Hagen: Detlef thinks that Andreas described this in his mail to the list at https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dss-x/201802/msg00005.html
[18:36] Stefan Hagen: Andreas thinks the structuring is possible but looks far to deep and some placement decisions might not be as canonic as one hopes - people might not find things in expected places (for them)
[18:37] Stefan Hagen: Detlef thinks at work in ETSI e.g.. base  would be required but not core
[18:37] Stefan Hagen: Detlef suggests shifting of some types into base (already accomplished as stated by Andreas)
[18:38] Stefan Hagen: Detlef mentions structures related to sign and verify request and response and thinks as in e.g. a WSDL file they would appear as core and not as auxiliary data structure so is ok with the existing grouping plans
[18:38] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: The rest might be just sorted lexicographically and grouped by input and output on a top level
[18:39] Stefan Hagen: Andreas is fine with three sections
[18:39] Stefan Hagen: 7.2 Editorial topics
7.2.1 Use of xs:any in DSS 2.0
[18:40] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Frank came along with a good reason to keep it somewhere - context must understand true or false
[18:40] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Thinks schema migration might be a good way
[18:41] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: Keep xs:any in standard but also recommendation (strong) a server SHOULD provide a WSDL file (if applicable) describing what it supprots
[18:41] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: But some any would be helpful to be able to ignore some option stuff from a server
[18:42] Stefan Hagen: All discuss
[18:44] Stefan Hagen: Stefan suggests to send a mail with the assumed consensus proposal to the list, so we can finalise a working consensus.
[18:44] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: Maybe just recommend
[18:44] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Auxiliary any just for this reason or avoid at all (love to) - the former reason acceptable at least
[18:45] Stefan Hagen: Frank: Any consent also expressible in JSON world?
[18:46] Stefan Hagen: 7.2.2 Strategy for Mix-In of third party schema references
[18:48] Stefan Hagen: All: There seems to be consensus w.r.t. the core - on the other hand, it should not forbid too much
[18:50] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Most tricky part is we need to redefine them and tatataaaa Andreas managed to produce a first version and hope to come up this week with samples so all can discuss based on end to end visibility of the concept
[18:50] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Hopes on feedback of rewriting of xades
[18:50] Stefan Hagen: ... from Juan Carlos
[18:51] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: Will send it around (Frank is looking forward to it so he can test)
[18:51] Stefan Hagen: ... there are new namespaces !
[18:51] Stefan Hagen: 7.2.3 Workproduct organization
[18:52] Stefan Hagen: Stefan injected into the TAB discussions a request what formats are available to us here at OASIS, under which constraints, and esp. if we can have zero copy multiple view docuemnts
[18:56] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: Thinks the topic is somewhat deeper. Should the JSON schema that Andreas' tool chain produces can really be assigned to a specific somewhat standardised JSON schema version.
[18:57] Stefan Hagen: Detlef: Can this JSON output of ours be directly injected into a OpenAPI/Swagger file?
[18:57] Stefan Hagen: Andreas experimented with this albeit they expect YAML as input
[18:57] Stefan Hagen: Andreas: he succeeded and thinks it is interesting
[18:57] Stefan Hagen: Detlef likes this.
[18:58] Stefan Hagen: Stefan mentions, that OpenAPI might require too much verbosity (as with OData) and suggests we might only guarantee some additional mapping document
[19:01] Stefan Hagen: Andreas is interested in short OData facts shown
[19:01] Stefan Hagen: Stefan is willing, suggests until next meeting send links
[19:02] Stefan Hagen: then collect then meeting after that one discuss
[19:02] Stefan Hagen: 8. Profiles

9. Next meeting
Suggested to meet again on 2018-FEB-19 (usual bi-weekly schedule)
[19:02] Stefan Hagen: Profiles skipped
[19:02] Stefan Hagen: Andreas suggests to meet next week.
[19:03] Stefan Hagen: All agree next meeting 2018-FEB-12
[19:03] Stefan Hagen: 10. AOB
[19:04] Stefan Hagen: Frank will not be able to join next week
[19:04] Stefan Hagen: None.
[19:04] Stefan Hagen: Meeting adjourned by chair