Raw Minutes Chat for meeting #211 on 2018-06-11

["Mr. Stefan Hagen" <stefan@hagen.link>]

[18:06] Stefan Hagen: DSS-X Conference Call #211 (Conference Call)
TimeMonday, 11 June 2018, 04:00pm to 05:00pm UTC
[18:06] Stefan Hagen: Agenda draft:
[18:06] Stefan Hagen: 1. Welcome by the chair (Stefan Hagen)

2. Minutes taker
All write into the chat, Stefan assembles and uploads into document area.

3. Roll call

4. Approval of the agenda

5. Approval of minutes from previous calls
5.1 Minutes from call #210 on 2018-05-28:
URL = https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/63160/chat_trace_dss-meeting-20180528-210.txt

6. Roadmap for 2018
6.1 Milestone DSS 2.0 Core/Base/MVP CSD01/CS01 stage
6.2 Milestone DSS 2.0 Popular Profiles CSD01 stage
6.3 Milestone DSS 2.0 other normative stages
6.4 Milestone DSS 2.0 supportive but supplementary non-normative materials

7. Core 2.0 issues discussion
7.1 Maintenance tasks

7.2 Topology of schemas - structure and relation

7.3 Editorial topics

7.4 Possible motion to progress core to CSD01 and request public review

8. Profiles

9. Next meeting
Suggested to meet again on 2018-JUN-25  (usual bi-weekly schedule)

10. AOB
[18:07] Stefan Hagen: Meeting statrted
[18:07] Stefan Hagen: 1. Welcome by the chair (Stefan Hagen)

2. Minutes taker
All write into the chat, Stefan assembles and uploads into document area.

3. Roll call
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: AK, DH, EJvN,SH
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: Quorate:
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: Yes
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: 4. Approval of the agenda
[18:08] Stefan Hagen: Agenda approved unchanged as published(some mailingg list questions will be tackled in the editorial core section
[18:09] Stefan Hagen: 5. Approval of minutes from previous calls
5.1 Minutes from call #210 on 2018-05-28:
URL = https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/63160/chat_trace_dss-meeting-20180528-210.txt
[18:09] Stefan Hagen: Minutes are approved unchanged as published
[18:09] Stefan Hagen: 6. Roadmap for 2018
6.1 Milestone DSS 2.0 Core/Base/MVP CSD01/CS01 stage
6.2 Milestone DSS 2.0 Popular Profiles CSD01 stage
6.3 Milestone DSS 2.0 other normative stages
6.4 Milestone DSS 2.0 supportive but supplementary non-normative materials
[18:11] Stefan Hagen: 7. Core 2.0 issues discussion
7.1 Maintenance tasks
[18:12] Stefan Hagen: 7.2 Topology of schemas - structure and relation

7.3 Editorial topics
[18:12] Stefan Hagen: SH pushed a load of editorial changes in WD06 based on Andreas' WD05 - some questions / pending resolutions (all on mostly editorial or marketing level
[18:14] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: Replied to Upper lower case garden variety question from stefan on mailing list and indeed found that the document mirrors the grammar use, but is not happy with it (details see his mail) e.g. models Uppercase start etc.
[18:19] Stefan Hagen: SH: Mentions Andreas response to better keep the case mismatches as they are to avoid rise in migration efforts and is haps, that indeed the reality described in the prose is imperfect and not the extraction /generation tools.
[18:19] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: would prefer to harmonise / make more meaningful based on the usual interpretation of semantic versioning of a 2.0 (being expected to cause breaking changes (for the better)
[18:21] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: Especially the model is new, so no problems in the field possible, there would be a benefit of enhancing the expression of the model (examples in mail ID use in various places) without impacting XML or JSON implementations
[18:24] Stefan Hagen: AK: Model would be OK as long as XML and JSON are not impacted (ID might be the only problematic symbol) - shall we create a mapping table from Model to XML only for this?
[18:25] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: ID and IDREF would be the only two but we could work around it . readability would be enhanced and confidence for readers they really understand it as meant
[18:26] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: there is a mapping among id related symbols that might induce 1 to 2 relationship and we should prefer a 1 to 1 instead
[18:31] Stefan Hagen: All discuss where the Id and the id might come from in XML (not the types ID and DREF)
[18:35] Stefan Hagen: Action on Andreas to suggest the unified naming for id
[18:37] Stefan Hagen: Marketing topic one could eventually use our stuff vs. proven usage, lalala
[18:38] Stefan Hagen: EJvN agrees that we have something proven and not possibly maybe
[18:39] Stefan Hagen: Detlef asks if we should not use XML names in JSON
[18:39] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: JSON community uses shorter names.
[18:43] Stefan Hagen: All discuss names
[18:44] Stefan Hagen: SH: Thinks ReturnTransformedDocument as JSON key with lower() to return transformeddocument or return_transformed_document is a no go
[18:44] Stefan Hagen: DH: States that a mapping to all lowercase and shorter is an option (keep the mapping approach)
[18:51] Stefan Hagen: DH and SH discuss ad agree, that the mapping from model to JSON is not the point at the moment, but instead the model copied from XML and now exposing inconsistencies as model (elements having different casing) no one looked at the schema for a decade just used it, as model the people like to see, that the same thing is the same, and different means different
[18:55] Stefan Hagen: Stefan hopes for the action outcome (on Andreas) everyone invited to discuss on the list)
[18:59] Stefan Hagen: SH: wants as requested in the mailing list to remove the syntax specific requirements that imply are there to mechanically refer / copy over to the model based requirements
[18:59] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: will be happy if these can be removed
[19:02] Stefan Hagen: DH: in addition would like to have some better separation between a) main model types like SignRequest operation like (root elements) and b) subordinate model types that are not root elements like describing the interactions between client and server or define special cases
[19:04] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: In addition there are derived types and we already have an ordering approach in describing
[19:04] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: Data processing model is the place where to start where which element is needed
[19:11] Stefan Hagen: AK: We could add a section (all looking at section 6.1) maybe in section 5 in overview state which elements as root elements are expected
[19:12] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: similarly we could state SignRequest as possible root element there
[19:13] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: Suggests section to be inserted that states like root elements and then list them
[19:15] Stefan Hagen: SH: Is in favor to constrain changes for CSD01 to not block CS01 publication before October 208 and later add enhanced readability and understandability in CS02
[19:15] Stefan Hagen: EJvN: Also in favor
[19:19] Stefan Hagen: AoB?
[19:19] Stefan Hagen: None
[19:21] Stefan Hagen: Meeting again in two weeks time
[19:21] Stefan Hagen: Meeting adjourned by Chair