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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?

To add  fuel to the David (Webber) vs. Goliaths (Microsoft, IBM) story, I'll
relay a comment I heard at the CIO Council at FOSE. When I asked why they
haven't fully blessed SOA and WS, one CIO reply was "because I still can't
implement a "working" distributed WS if one application is running under
.NET and the other is running under J2EE".

I'm not sure we can achieve this, but I hope our team can develop a
"roadmap" toward a unified set set of standards or, at least, a friendly


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>;
<ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; "ebSOA"
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services

> Joe,
> You remind me of Nelson on the deck of the Victory at the
> Battle of the Nile - "I see no ships!"  (looking with his
> blind-eye through his telescope)....
> Web services is not even close to being finished yet - and
> a whole chunk of it is futilely recreating ebXML functionality,
> but from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL.
> Let's be clear here - Bob Sutor's decision was deterimental
> to everything and driven by his own self-interest - and by
> Microsoft and IBM thinking they could get there first.
> Well they did not, and they have merely succeeded in
> confusing the marketplace and adding much wasted time
> to the whole process - including mine in typing this and
> yours in reading it.  Customers would already be buying
> consistent ebSOA were it not for their confusion caused
> by web service FUD.
> I'm throughly disinterested in the web service fraternity
> continued efforts to re-write history and make like today
> they have everything working better than ebXML.
> First it was 'web services is simpler than ebXML - which
> is too complicated".  Now its - 'web services are more
> complete than ebXML - which is only limited and old'.
> Fact is - ebXML is well suited to its mission profile and
> therefore is coherent and consistent.  And like any
> great technology - ebXML is evolving, maturing and
> growing.  Web services are anything but - fragmented,
> dispersed and subject to proprietary whims - so what
> did web services learn from ebXML?  Frankly very little.
> Cheers, DW.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; "ebSOA"
> <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:31 PM
> Subject: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?
> > I'm in a bit of a "controversial" (tongue-in-cheek) mood today, so I
> > thought I'd through this out and see what comes back. My thoughts are
> > spurred by a book on that I am currently reading. Please note as you
> > read this that I am in a position in which I am vendor neutral.
> >
> > 3 years ago, when the first phase of ebXML was getting ready to wind
> > down, I was a mere observer on various listservs, so I don't have the
> > perspective of someone who was in the throws of things. However, I've
> > been thinking: Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?
> >
> > More specifically: I understand that there was a "schism" of sorts at
> > one point (exactly when I am not sure) in which several major vendors
> > pulled out of ebXML. These vendors happen to be those that are
> > considered to be the driving forces behind Web Services (by this I mean
> > the "SOAP/WSDL/UDDI"). Web Services.
> >
> > I wonder - if this "schism" did not take place (assuming that it indeed
> > did), would Web Services have taken off as quickly as they did? Did this
> > "schism" give more motivation to these vendors to evolve the "base" Web
> > Services standards as quickly as they were evolved? What if these
> > vendors had not pulled out of ebXML? What would the landscape look like
> > now?
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments?
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Joe Chiusano
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of
> the OASIS TC), go to
> >
> >

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