RE: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?

[<chris.hipson@bt.com>]

Mark Yader said

one CIO reply was "because I still can't implement a "working"
distributed WS if one application is running under .NET and the other is
running under J2EE".

Hi Mark we've found .Net to be one of the easier toolkits to get working
to J2EE. My suspicion would be that the messages exceeded the capability
of current web service toolkits, but if you don't fall for to much hype
it can be done. [And no I'm not saying it's 'good' that these limits /
features exist].

Chris Hipson
Web Service Technology Consultant
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Yader [mailto:mjyader@comcast.net] 
Sent: 25 March 2004 02:39
To: David RR Webber; Chiusano Joseph; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org;
regrep@lists.oasis-open.org; ebSOA
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web
Services Evolution?

To add  fuel to the David (Webber) vs. Goliaths (Microsoft, IBM) story,
I'll
relay a comment I heard at the CIO Council at FOSE. When I asked why
they
haven't fully blessed SOA and WS, one CIO reply was "because I still
can't
implement a "working" distributed WS if one application is running under
.NET and the other is running under J2EE".

I'm not sure we can achieve this, but I hope our team can develop a
"roadmap" toward a unified set set of standards or, at least, a friendly
co-existence.

Regards......Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>;
<ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; "ebSOA"
<ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services
Evolution?


> Joe,
>
> You remind me of Nelson on the deck of the Victory at the
> Battle of the Nile - "I see no ships!"  (looking with his
> blind-eye through his telescope)....
>
> Web services is not even close to being finished yet - and
> a whole chunk of it is futilely recreating ebXML functionality,
> but from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL.
>
> Let's be clear here - Bob Sutor's decision was deterimental
> to everything and driven by his own self-interest - and by
> Microsoft and IBM thinking they could get there first.
>
> Well they did not, and they have merely succeeded in
> confusing the marketplace and adding much wasted time
> to the whole process - including mine in typing this and
> yours in reading it.  Customers would already be buying
> consistent ebSOA were it not for their confusion caused
> by web service FUD.
>
> I'm throughly disinterested in the web service fraternity
> continued efforts to re-write history and make like today
> they have everything working better than ebXML.
>
> First it was 'web services is simpler than ebXML - which
> is too complicated".  Now its - 'web services are more
> complete than ebXML - which is only limited and old'.
>
> Fact is - ebXML is well suited to its mission profile and
> therefore is coherent and consistent.  And like any
> great technology - ebXML is evolving, maturing and
> growing.  Web services are anything but - fragmented,
> dispersed and subject to proprietary whims - so what
> did web services learn from ebXML?  Frankly very little.
>
> Cheers, DW.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> To: <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>;
"ebSOA"
> <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:31 PM
> Subject: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services
Evolution?
>
>
> > I'm in a bit of a "controversial" (tongue-in-cheek) mood today, so I
> > thought I'd through this out and see what comes back. My thoughts
are
> > spurred by a book on that I am currently reading. Please note as you
> > read this that I am in a position in which I am vendor neutral.
> >
> > 3 years ago, when the first phase of ebXML was getting ready to wind
> > down, I was a mere observer on various listservs, so I don't have
the
> > perspective of someone who was in the throws of things. However,
I've
> > been thinking: Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?
> >
> > More specifically: I understand that there was a "schism" of sorts
at
> > one point (exactly when I am not sure) in which several major
vendors
> > pulled out of ebXML. These vendors happen to be those that are
> > considered to be the driving forces behind Web Services (by this I
mean
> > the "SOAP/WSDL/UDDI"). Web Services.
> >
> > I wonder - if this "schism" did not take place (assuming that it
indeed
> > did), would Web Services have taken off as quickly as they did? Did
this
> > "schism" give more motivation to these vendors to evolve the "base"
Web
> > Services standards as quickly as they were evolved? What if these
> > vendors had not pulled out of ebXML? What would the landscape look
like
> > now?
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments?
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Joe Chiusano
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the
roster of
> the OASIS TC), go to
>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgr
oup.php.
> >
> >
>
>