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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution?
Chris, This is a long topic. The premise behind WSDL - is all technology based. When you use an editing tool - like VisualScript or XMLSpy, you see that just from the XML point of view there's a lot of repetitive cross information - that you keep entering - if nothing else this is confusing - and this is the nature of the beast - I heard someone describe it as a freight train car - and any hobo is allowed to hop on and make their own bed. It's certainly a very different model and approach from OASIS CPA - which is heavily business-centric in many ways - and this is the disconnect. People are trying to use WSDL to described business interactions and it was never designed for that. WSDL is the way it is because of its original requirements and use case design. Its hard to go back and retool that - and there is where this sits. The same thing applies to XSD too. The W3C is solving a different set of problems than people are expecting to be able to solve. DW. ----- Original Message ----- From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: <email@example.com>; <firstname.lastname@example.org>; <email@example.com>; <firstname.lastname@example.org>; <email@example.com> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:12 AM Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? David Webber said "from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL." In what areas are WSDL unsustainable? What improvements would be required to 'make it work'? Cheers Chris Hipson Web Service Technology Consultant -----Original Message----- From: David RR Webber [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] Sent: 24 March 2004 20:44 To: Chiusano Joseph; email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org; ebSOA Subject: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? Joe, You remind me of Nelson on the deck of the Victory at the Battle of the Nile - "I see no ships!" (looking with his blind-eye through his telescope).... Web services is not even close to being finished yet - and a whole chunk of it is futilely recreating ebXML functionality, but from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL. Let's be clear here - Bob Sutor's decision was deterimental to everything and driven by his own self-interest - and by Microsoft and IBM thinking they could get there first. Well they did not, and they have merely succeeded in confusing the marketplace and adding much wasted time to the whole process - including mine in typing this and yours in reading it. Customers would already be buying consistent ebSOA were it not for their confusion caused by web service FUD. I'm throughly disinterested in the web service fraternity continued efforts to re-write history and make like today they have everything working better than ebXML. First it was 'web services is simpler than ebXML - which is too complicated". Now its - 'web services are more complete than ebXML - which is only limited and old'. Fact is - ebXML is well suited to its mission profile and therefore is coherent and consistent. And like any great technology - ebXML is evolving, maturing and growing. Web services are anything but - fragmented, dispersed and subject to proprietary whims - so what did web services learn from ebXML? Frankly very little. Cheers, DW. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiusano Joseph" <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>; <email@example.com>; "ebSOA" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > I'm in a bit of a "controversial" (tongue-in-cheek) mood today, so I > thought I'd through this out and see what comes back. My thoughts are > spurred by a book on that I am currently reading. Please note as you > read this that I am in a position in which I am vendor neutral. > > 3 years ago, when the first phase of ebXML was getting ready to wind > down, I was a mere observer on various listservs, so I don't have the > perspective of someone who was in the throws of things. However, I've > been thinking: Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > > More specifically: I understand that there was a "schism" of sorts at > one point (exactly when I am not sure) in which several major vendors > pulled out of ebXML. These vendors happen to be those that are > considered to be the driving forces behind Web Services (by this I mean > the "SOAP/WSDL/UDDI"). Web Services. > > I wonder - if this "schism" did not take place (assuming that it indeed > did), would Web Services have taken off as quickly as they did? Did this > "schism" give more motivation to these vendors to evolve the "base" Web > Services standards as quickly as they were evolved? What if these > vendors had not pulled out of ebXML? What would the landscape look like > now? > > Thoughts? Comments? > > Kind Regards, > Joe Chiusano > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster of the OASIS TC), go to http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgr oup.php. > >