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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA


Matt,
 
OK - I'm on-board for that, and +1 on my intent and
purpose here. 
 
I'm still not totally clear on what you mean by patterns
and if that meshes with what I'm thinking - but if its
anything relating to defining how the requirements get
determined - a la BCM layers approach - and from that
determining what technology patterns are needed to
deliver the overall solution characteristics - that definately
makes sense - however you want to capture that.
 
Thanks, DW
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA

I think that someone needs to take charge here and set some direction for this TC. DRRW's approach infuriates me a lot of the time, but at least he is trying to progress something in some direction.

I think that this TC needs to actively revisit the ebRequirements stuff and draft patterns to address those requirements with the stack that we have built these past years. Lets schedule such a review. Lets create a template for these patterns. Lets engage the TC membership in incremental review of this work.

Next steps:

1. Review those requirements, produce an analysis document specifying the required patterns.
2. Develop a pattern template and some common language.
3. Develop patterns. Review. Publish.

Comments?

-Matt

On May 19, 2004, at 7:44 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:

David:

While this may be true, it is definitely premature to make this post. We still have to get the doc to a 0.2 version.

There is not point in generating BPSS instances before we have a runtime execution engine. I agree - there is an audience for this, perhaps the bp related lists may be a better forum for now. I know this is procedural and burocratic in nature but I guess I am part politician now ;-)

What we need now if a scope statement, pattern work, document structure and help for editing. Love to see you contribute to that ;-) Then let's discuss BP**

Duane

David RR Webber wrote:

Matt,
Heck - if you don't want to see what I've been working
on - you don't have to do any of it.
However the good news is there are two files at the
link - one is a JPG and the other is an XML file.
You can view the JPG and then inspect the XML
that the model generated. By examining the JPG
you will see the components that go into specifying
a robust business process - and the supporting
linkages to the transport layer, the context system,
and transactions. Being able to drive all this with
XML templates is IMHO a key need for ebSOA,
and while the BPSS approach may not be perfect -
its certainly one we should be lookiing at to
understand how it relates and can be leveraged.
Also - since BPSS is middleware neutral - there is
a strong possibility it can be applied to the ebSOA
deployment environments.
Then there is the fact that the BPSS approach is
derived and built-up from over twenty years of
evolving knowledge on business processes - not to
mention - tightly couples to the ebMS interchange
model.
But apart from that the patterns it uses might strike
some as being antiquated, while others will see them
as essential foundation business components.
I'm just the messenger here ; -)
DW

----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew MacKenzie <mailto:mattm@adobe.com>
To: David RR Webber <mailto:david@drrw.info>
Cc: ebsoa <mailto:ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA

Let me get this straight...

I'm supposed to get a copy of your tool, and download a BPSS
sample. When I have this, I am somehow better prepared to create a
ebSOA model?

Lots of assumptions that I do not care for...

- We will use VisualScript (does it run on Mac OS by the way?)
- We will use BPSS as a foundation technology.
- ...

-Matt
On May 19, 2004, at 10:36 AM, David RR Webber wrote:

Team,
I've uploaded the current beta to:
http://drrw.net/visualscripts/
You will see the "NEW" BPSS V2 example marked.
To use this - download the ZIP file - and unpack it into
the TEMP directory on your C: drive
(you can change the path reference in the model - but its
easier to just unpack it to c:\temp to get started).
This new model includes the ability to define Context as
part of the BPSS model - so it gives key insights into
creating process models that manage the business
transactional needs, context, and integration to the
transport layer with ebMS, WSDL, http-binding, RPC
and more.
I'm sure this will be a pivot point for getting our ebSOA model
and details honed so that it all works harmoniously.
Next I'm working on a quick PPT tutorial - so people can easily
step thru and create their own BPSS from scratch.
Enjoy, DW
p.s. I'm also looking at the jBPM JBOSS engine - figuring I can
drive jBPM from the BPSS models....and thus transport
layer and implement a foundation piece for ebSOA...

___________________________
Matthew MacKenzie
Senior Architect
IDBU Server Solutions
Adobe Systems Canada Inc.
http://www.adobe.com/products/server/
mattm@adobe.com
+1 (506) 871.5409


--
Senior Standards Strategist
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://www.adobe.com




___________________________
Matthew MacKenzie
Senior Architect
IDBU Server Solutions
Adobe Systems Canada Inc.
http://www.adobe.com/products/server/
mattm@adobe.com
+1 (506) 871.5409


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