Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA

["David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>]

Joe,

Now Matt of course will argue that all my shit is top down! ; -)
And that is of course my intent with the BPSS modelling - to
provide a higher level business pattern system that can
direct and inform the implementation layer.

However BPSS by itself is not enough - certainly not V2 - but
I suspect that V3 BPSS could be good enough for V1 ebSOA.
Rationale - we've added context now to BPSS - that was a
huge missing peice that is vital for ebSOA; next up is adding
linking ans switching and state management - aka BCM
Choice Points.

With choice points added to BPSS in V3 we potentially have
the ability to treat BPSS subprocesses and blackboxes - and
then things get very interesting in terms of being able to
model at a high level - using linking and switching to direct
the flows.

Since choice points can be implemented with Prolog very
easily - this relates back to my earlier cryptic note about
other activity models - maybe the pattern system we need
at the top level is a blend - BPSS blackboxes directed by
a higher activity control system....

Thanks, DW
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
To: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
Cc: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>; "Matthew MacKenzie"
<mattm@adobe.com>; "ebsoa" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA


> With all due respect to the hard work that TC members have done on
> products, I say +1 to Duane's point about our needing a top-down
> approach as opposed to a bottom-up approach - and at that, a bottom-up
> approach that depends on the capabilities of a specific vendor tool.
>
> No offense intended regarding David's very hard work on the VS product.
>
> Joe
>
> Duane Nickull wrote:
> >
> > David:
> >
> > While this may be true, it is definitely premature to make this post.
> >  We still have to get the doc to a 0.2 version.
> >
> > There is not point in generating BPSS instances before we have a runtime
> > execution engine.  I agree - there is an audience for this, perhaps the
> > bp related lists may be a better forum for now.  I know this is
> > procedural and burocratic in nature but I guess I am part politician now
;-)
> >
> > What we need now if a scope statement, pattern work, document structure
> > and  help for editing.  Love to see you contribute to that ;-)  Then
> > let's discuss BP**
> >
> > Duane
> >
> > David RR Webber wrote:
> >
> > > Matt,
> > >
> > > Heck - if you don't want to see what I've been working
> > > on - you don't have to do any of it.
> > >
> > > However the good news is there are two files at the
> > > link - one is a JPG and the other is an XML file.
> > >
> > > You can view the JPG and then inspect the XML
> > > that the model generated.  By examining the JPG
> > > you will see the components that go into specifying
> > > a robust business process - and the supporting
> > > linkages to the transport layer, the context system,
> > > and transactions.  Being able to drive all this with
> > > XML templates is IMHO a key need for ebSOA,
> > > and while the BPSS approach may not be perfect -
> > > its certainly one we should be lookiing at to
> > > understand how it relates and can be leveraged.
> > >
> > > Also - since BPSS is middleware neutral - there is
> > > a strong possibility it can be applied to the ebSOA
> > > deployment environments.
> > >
> > > Then there is the fact that the BPSS approach is
> > > derived and built-up from over twenty years of
> > > evolving knowledge on business processes - not to
> > > mention - tightly couples to the ebMS interchange
> > > model.
> > >
> > > But apart from that the patterns it uses might strike
> > > some as being antiquated, while others will see them
> > > as essential foundation business components.
> > >
> > > I'm just the messenger here ; -)
> > >
> > > DW
> > >
> > >     ----- Original Message -----
> > >     From: Matthew MacKenzie <mailto:mattm@adobe.com>
> > >     To: David RR Webber <mailto:david@drrw.info>
> > >     Cc: ebsoa <mailto:ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > >     Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:44 AM
> > >     Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New BPSS V2 editor for ebSOA
> > >
> > >     Let me get this straight...
> > >
> > >     I'm supposed to get a copy of your tool, and download a BPSS
> > >     sample. When I have this, I am somehow better prepared to create a
> > >     ebSOA model?
> > >
> > >     Lots of assumptions that I do not care for...
> > >
> > >     - We will use VisualScript (does it run on Mac OS by the way?)
> > >     - We will use BPSS as a foundation technology.
> > >     - ...
> > >
> > >     -Matt
> > >     On May 19, 2004, at 10:36 AM, David RR Webber wrote:
> > >
> > >         Team,
> > >
> > >         I've uploaded the current beta to:
> > >
> > >          http://drrw.net/visualscripts/
> > >
> > >         You will see the "NEW" BPSS V2 example marked.
> > >
> > >         To use this - download the ZIP file - and unpack it into
> > >         the TEMP directory on your C: drive
> > >
> > >         (you can change the path reference in the model - but its
> > >          easier to just unpack it to c:\temp to get started).
> > >
> > >         This new model includes the ability to define Context as
> > >         part of the BPSS model - so it gives key insights into
> > >         creating process models that manage the business
> > >         transactional needs, context, and integration to the
> > >         transport layer with ebMS, WSDL, http-binding, RPC
> > >         and more.
> > >
> > >         I'm sure this will be a pivot point for getting our ebSOA
model
> > >         and details honed so that it all works harmoniously.
> > >
> > >         Next I'm working on a quick PPT tutorial - so people can
easily
> > >         step thru and create their own BPSS from scratch.
> > >
> > >         Enjoy, DW
> > >
> > >         p.s. I'm also looking at the jBPM JBOSS engine - figuring I
can
> > >               drive jBPM from the BPSS models....and thus transport
> > >               layer and implement a foundation piece for ebSOA...
> > >
> > >     ___________________________
> > >     Matthew MacKenzie
> > >     Senior Architect
> > >     IDBU Server Solutions
> > >     Adobe Systems Canada Inc.
> > >     http://www.adobe.com/products/server/
> > >     mattm@adobe.com
> > >     +1 (506) 871.5409
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Senior Standards Strategist
> > Adobe Systems, Inc.
> > http://www.adobe.com
>
> -- 
> Kind Regards,
> Joseph Chiusano
> Associate
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
>