Re: [ebsoa] Ben's document

["David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>]

Boy is everyone confused!!

I highly recommend you all read the BCM Executive Overview
to acquiant yourself with the notion of Business Templates and
Patterns.

Of course the OASIS templates for MS Word are an
example of a BCM business template that enables
users to coordinate around a business task.  However,
as these OASIS templates do not (currently!) store
their information semantically as XML - they fail an
important test for a business template.

Anyway - Ben's work is nothing to do with the notion
of creating domain specific process templates that
conform to ebSOA and enable users to deliver
ebSOA solutions.

I still say that Ben's document is very programmer
facing - and we first need an executive level document
that delivers punch.  The BCM specification attempt
to do this by making sure that Chapter 1, paragraph 1,
starts immediately by telling you how to do BCM.

We need the same for ebSOA - and getting there is
the challenge.

Cheers, DW

p.s. I'm sure Sally is going to remind us of the need
       for the terminology dictionary too! ; -)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
Cc: <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Ben's document


> Team:
>
> The move forward document is the spec, currently in version 0.2 .  We
> will definitely use the great work within Ben's document going forward
> but we have to use the OASIS template for our work, as per OASIS TC
> general rules.
>
> Let's keep focused!
>
> Duane
>
>
>
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
> >Thanks David. An additional question comes to mind here:
> >
> >We have our committee draft, and something we call "Ben's document".
> >Which of these (or perhaps both) are we currently calling our
> >"move-forward" document? Are we planning to combine these documents?
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >David RR Webber wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Joe,
> >>
> >>Actually - not those types of templates are bottom up.
> >>
> >>Right now I'm enjoying working on some BPSS templates,
> >>but even they are close to the technology layer - in this
> >>instance I'm think much more about BCM style templates
> >>that are business focused.
> >>
> >>DW
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> >>To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
> >>Cc: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 12:58 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Ben's document
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>[Catching up on ebSOA e-mails]
> >>>
> >>>David,
> >>>
> >>>You mention business use semantic templates below - would you happen to
> >>>have an example of one (for any BUP)? I sense the answer will be a
> >>>3-letter acronym beginning with C....A....?
> >>>
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>David RR Webber wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Joe,
> >>>>
> >>>>Yes - no Gartner here!
> >>>>
> >>>>Operational modes works.
> >>>>
> >>>>What do you think about the business use semantic templates
> >>>>however that refine them?
> >>>>
> >>>>DW
> >>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> >>>>To: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
> >>>>Cc: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:57 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Ben's document
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Am I correct in assuming that the term "SOA BUP" was coined by our
TC,
> >>>>>as opposed to existing as a Gartner (or other) term?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I like the term BUP, but as a more generic conversational alternative
> >>>>>(for clients and colleagues), could we consider these "operational
> >>>>>models" (or perhaps "operational models"?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Joe
> >>>>>
> >>>>>David RR Webber wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Duane,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>OK - done - synopsis - this is the programmers eye-level view
> >>>>>>that fits into that world of people using UML to create
> >>>>>>enterprise integration applications with J2EE et al today.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>So - in addition to this - following Ben's usage - we need
> >>>>>>the SOA BUP - Business Use Patterns, as the overarching
> >>>>>>view here - that introduces what ebSOA is all about -
> >>>>>>and most important - how people can use SOA BUP
> >>>>>>to develop their own solution rapidly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>That way we can dispense with the history lesson in
> >>>>>>OO et al -(well OK - that's NTH - so we'll keep it
> >>>>>>as an Appendix "The Evolution of SOA components").
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The SOA BUP will allow business integration designers
> >>>>>>to pick models and patterns, and create new patterns
> >>>>>>for their own for industry uses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Typical patterns would include:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>1) Classic ebSOA - this is the ebXML pattern around BPM.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>2) Holistic ebSOA - blends use of BPM with webservices.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>3) POA - process-oriented architecture.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>3) SOA - EAI service oriented architecture.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>4) EPR - bespoke solution pattern(s) for particular
> >>>>>>    sector domains - in this case eGovernment services
> >>>>>>    and citizen-facing applications.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>and so on.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>What I'm chiefly after here is avoiding being button-holed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Ben's approach to SOA - while good for todays programmers
> >>>>>>can also suffer from rapid obsolescence - as witnessed from
> >>>>>>people touting POA, and varients already today.  You are
> >>>>>>then yesterdays news.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>We need to have an adaptive model here - that can then
> >>>>>>assimulate the latest in-vogue programming components
> >>>>>>as they emerge.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Therefore POA with ebSOA patterns
> >>>>>>keeps you right abreast of a new development. Hence
> >>>>>>SOA BUP is essential IMO.   But more important
> >>>>>>it allows you to precisely define what a POA is in
> >>>>>>terms of your proven known value set of components.
> >>>>>>An erector kit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks, DW
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
> >>>>>>To: <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 6:55 PM
> >>>>>>Subject: [ebsoa] Ben's document
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I also urge each and every one of you to read Ben's PDF document
> >>>>>>>uploaded to our members section.  This reads very well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Duane
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>Senior Standards Strategist
> >>>>>>>Adobe Systems, Inc.
> >>>>>>>http://www.adobe.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>Kind Regards,
> >>>>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>>>Associate
> >>>>>Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>--
> >>>Kind Regards,
> >>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>Associate
> >>>Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Senior Standards Strategist
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://www.adobe.com
>
>
>
>