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-----Original Message----- From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:01 AM To: Matthew MacKenzie; ebSOA OASIS TC Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Does SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic Discovery? =09 =09 Thanks Matt. From that I take: =20 - Discovery in general is required for SOA (cannot function without it) - Whether it is (what I will call) "fundamental" discovery - meaning = your first example below - or "registry-based" discovery depends on = technical and business requirements. =20 I just cannot foresee trying to convince a current or potential = customer that they have to put up $XX,XXX for a registry product if the = technical and business requirements do not call for it, just to comply = with someone's definition of the term "SOA". =20 Kind Regards, Joseph Chiusano Booz Allen Hamilton Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World =20 ________________________________ From: Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:57 AM To: Chiusano Joseph; 'ebSOA OASIS TC' Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Does SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic = Discovery? =09 =09 My opinion is that a registry is nothing more than a very explicit = service discovery device. =20 An SOA does need a method of discovering services, and consuming them, = but this method may in some cases be subtle. For example, my SOA may = operate on the premise that consumers all are aware of an enumeration of = service types, and their port numbers (think /etc/services in the unix = world), and allowable IP ranges for finding services. Clients may be = configured something like: =20 { Services imap, http, ssh, daytime, pop3, portmap IPRange 192.168.0.0/24 } =20 A client with such a configuration does have a way of discovering = services that are available to it, and of course, a way of binding to = them. =20 Contrast this with a registry driven SOA: =20 {=20 ServiceRegistry http://foo/registry } =20 The only difference is in the implementation detail and verbosity of = information available. Conceptually, they are the same. =20 =20 --Matt MacKenzie =09 ________________________________ From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:38 AM To: ebSOA OASIS TC Subject: [ebsoa] Does SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic Discovery? =20 What is the TC's opinion on the answer to the question of "does SOA = require registry-based dynamic discovery"? I know that Discovery is a = pattern in the .047 spec, which leads me to believe that the position is = that SOA does not *require* registry-based discovery. =20 For example, suppose that: =20 - 2 organizations are using Web Services in a "SOA-like" manner = (meaning shared services represented as Web Services, that are invoked = by other Web Services).=20 =20 - There is no registry-based dynamic discovery, perhaps because the = organizations agree that these service locations are completely (or = relatively) stable, and that if the locations change, there will be some = out-of-band mechanism for propagating updated WSDL documents =20 Are these 2 organizations therefore *not* using a service-oriented = architecture? That is, does the second point completely negate the = first? Or, is it all really a matter of business and technical = requirements? =20 Kind Regards, Joseph Chiusano Booz Allen Hamilton Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4E2C8.49BE5F56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D642050217-15122004>From=20 my view the "registry requirement" is more a function of the = distributed=20 nature of the participants, the number and type of services, and the = amount of=20 change. A registry provides a method for decoupling "the use of an = SOA"=20 from "direct communication of the participants about HOW to use the = SOA".</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D642050217-15122004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D642050217-15122004>An SOA=20 without registry by definition is limited and = private</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D642050217-15122004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D642050217-15122004>An SOA=20 with a registry is open and dynamic</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D642050217-15122004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D642050217-15122004>John</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr = align=3Dleft><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = Chiusano Joseph=20 [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December = 15, 2004=20 9:01 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Matthew MacKenzie; ebSOA OASIS = TC<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20 [ebsoa] Does SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic=20 Discovery?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>Thanks Matt. From that I take:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>- Discovery in general is required for SOA (cannot function = without=20 it)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>- Whether it is (what I will call) "fundamental" discovery - = meaning=20 your first example below - or "registry-based" discovery depends on = technical=20 and business requirements.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D558335816-15122004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>I just cannot foresee trying to convince a current or = potential=20 customer that they have to put up $XX,XXX for a registry product if = the=20 technical and business requirements do not call for it, just to comply = with=20 someone's definition of the term "SOA".</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kind = Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joseph = Chiusano</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Booz Allen = Hamilton</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Strategy and Technology = Consultants to=20 the World</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr = align=3Dleft> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Matthew MacKenzie=20 [mailto:mattm@adobe.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 15, = 2004 11:57=20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Chiusano Joseph; 'ebSOA OASIS = TC'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:=20 [ebsoa] Does SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic=20 Discovery?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My = opinion is that=20 a registry is nothing more than a very explicit service discovery=20 device.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">An SOA = does need a=20 method of discovering services, and consuming them, but this method = may in=20 some cases be subtle. For example, my SOA may operate on the = premise=20 that consumers all are aware of an enumeration of service types, and = their=20 port numbers (think /etc/services in the unix world), and allowable = IP=20 ranges for finding services. Clients may be configured = something=20 like:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">{<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =20 Services imap, http, ssh, daytime, pop3,=20 portmap<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =20 IPRange 192.168.0.0/24<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">}<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A client = with such=20 a configuration does have a way of discovering services that are = available=20 to it, and of course, a way of binding to = them.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Contrast = this with=20 a registry driven SOA:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">{=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"> = =20 ServiceRegistry http://foo/registry<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">}<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The only = difference=20 is in the implementation detail and verbosity of information=20 available. Conceptually, they are the=20 same.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">--Matt=20 MacKenzie<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" = align=3Dcenter><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">=20 Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com] <BR><B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, December 15, = 2004=20 11:38 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> = ebSOA OASIS=20 TC<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> = [ebsoa] Does=20 SOA Require Registry-Based Dynamic=20 Discovery?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What is the TC's = opinion on the=20 answer to the question of "does SOA require registry-based dynamic=20 discovery"? I know that Discovery is a pattern in the .047 spec, = which leads=20 me to believe that the position is that SOA does not *require*=20 registry-based discovery.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For example, suppose=20 that:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- 2 organizations are = using Web=20 Services in a "SOA-like" manner (meaning shared services represented = as Web=20 Services, that are invoked by other Web Services).=20 </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- There is no = registry-based=20 dynamic discovery, perhaps because the organizations agree that = these=20 service locations are completely (or relatively) stable, and that if = the=20 locations change, there will be some out-of-band mechanism for = propagating=20 updated WSDL documents</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Are these 2 = organizations=20 therefore *not* using a service-oriented architecture? That is, does = the=20 second point completely negate the first? Or, is it all really a = matter of=20 business and technical = requirements?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kind=20 Regards,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Joseph=20 Chiusano</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Booz Allen=20 Hamilton</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Strategy and = Technology=20 Consultants to the World</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK= QUOTE></BODY></HTML> =00 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4E2C8.49BE5F56--
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