RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin

["Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>]

Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on
this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
information.

Kind Regards,
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
> To: David Webber (XML)
> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; 
> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; 
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> That would be the list, thanks David.
> Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to 
> encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other 
> WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious 
> point is that we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the 
> other side....
> 
> john
> 
> David Webber (XML) wrote:
> > Joe,
> > 
> > That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> > 
> > We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture 
> > that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
> > 
> > Thanks, DW
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> > To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> > <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" 
> <david@drrw.info>; "Duane 
> > Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; 
> > <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; 
> > <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>; 
> <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; 
> > <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" 
> > <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; 
> > <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; 
> "James Bryce Clark"
> > <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> > 
> > 
> > <Quote>
> > a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is 
> > closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
> > 
> > Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Joe
> > 
> > Joseph Chiusano
> > Booz Allen Hamilton
> > Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> >>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; 
> >>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> >>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> >>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John 
> >>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; 
> >>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>
> >>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >>
> >>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to 
> >>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or 
> just for 
> >>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about 
> >>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie 
> >>the other night, and got some direction from both him and 
> from Duane. 
> >>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump 
> >>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call 
> >>next Wed if allowed.
> >>
> >>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward 
> with the work 
> >>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards 
> >>interoperability among the upcoming business process 
> frameworks (WS*, 
> >>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The 
> >>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't 
> currently 
> >>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have 
> >>developed in their shared business processes. For example, 
> no one will 
> >>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive 
> industry is a 
> >>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another 
> >>area that is very complex, and requires multiple 
> interactions between 
> >>large numbers of process participants to complete the information 
> >>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >>
> >>The other reality is that process participants require constant 
> >>realtime feeds of information from many points in the 
> process, which 
> >>are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT 
> >>capabilities.
> >>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating 
> >>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> >>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation 
> >>techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on 
> >>top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >>
> >>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> >>
> >>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is 
> >>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >>
> >>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use 
> >>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and 
> shine a light 
> >>on successful implementations
> >>
> >>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent 
> >>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the 
> >>long-term target)
> >>
> >>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent 
> >>direction towards convergence
> >>
> >>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the 
> verge of a 
> >>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The 
> potential of 
> >>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's 
> potential is 
> >>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it, 
> business has 
> >>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all 
> want to build 
> >>it.
> >>
> >>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
> >>
> >>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between 
> >>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >>
> >>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >>
> >>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out 
> >>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire 
> movement)
> >>
> >>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these 
> >>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the 
> >>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe 
> it. There 
> >>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry 
> groups that 
> >>are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much 
> >>more complex than simple request-response models).
> >>
> >>That's it, I guess....
> >>
> >>John
> >>313.930.5323
> >>
> >>Monica J. Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>>John,
> >>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> >>
> >>MacKenzie was
> >>
> >>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> >>
> >>could provide
> >>
> >>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its 
> >>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update 
> on ebSOA 
> >>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> >>
> >>ebSOA would
> >>
> >>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for 
> ebXML. Your 
> >>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>--
> >>~~~~~~~~~
> >>john c hardin
> >>sanghainteractive.com
> >>313.930.5323 cell
> >>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >>
> >>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in 
> the image 
> >>of a global village."
> >>
> >>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> 
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in 
> the image of a global village."
> 
>      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> 
> 
>