[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
OK, I am now learning to be very specific. I am referring to ebMS v3.
Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
> John,
>
> Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo. Certainly, the
> ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that direction, but I
> don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward that vision.
>
> -matt
>
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
>> Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on
>> this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
>> information.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Joseph Chiusano
>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] Sent: Thursday,
>>> February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
>>> To: David Webber (XML)
>>> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
>>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; golsen@contivo.com; John
>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>
>>> That would be the list, thanks David.
>>> Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to
>>> encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS*
>>> specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious point is that we
>>> don't see that kind of outreach yet from the other side....
>>>
>>> john
>>>
>>> David Webber (XML) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joe,
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
>>>>
>>>> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture
>>>> that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, DW
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>>>> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
>>>> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber"
>>>
>>> <david@drrw.info>; "Duane
>>>
>>>> Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
>>>> <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>;
>>>> <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>;
>>>
>>> <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>;
>>>
>>>> <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas"
>>>> <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>;
>>>> <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>;
>>>
>>> "James Bryce Clark"
>>>
>>>
>>>> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <Quote>
>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
>>>>
>>>> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Chiusano
>>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
>>>>> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
>>>>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
>>>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
>>>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
>>>
>>> golsen@contivo.com; John
>>>
>>>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
>>>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to
>>>>> enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or
>>>
>>> just for
>>>
>>>>> ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about
>>>>> addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie
>>>>> the other night, and got some direction from both him and
>>>
>>> from Duane.
>>>
>>>>> I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump
>>>>> how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call
>>>>> next Wed if allowed.
>>>>>
>>>>> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
>>>
>>> with the work
>>>
>>>>> from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> interoperability among the upcoming business process
>>>
>>> frameworks (WS*,
>>>
>>>>> ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The
>>>>> request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't
>>>
>>> currently
>>>
>>>>> mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have
>>>>> developed in their shared business processes. For example,
>>>
>>> no one will
>>>
>>>>> argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
>>>
>>> industry is a
>>>
>>>>> request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another
>>>>> area that is very complex, and requires multiple
>>>
>>> interactions between
>>>
>>>>> large numbers of process participants to complete the information
>>>>> exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other reality is that process participants require constant
>>>>> realtime feeds of information from many points in the
>>>
>>> process, which
>>>
>>>>> are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT
>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating
>>>>> framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
>>>>> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation
>>>>> techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on
>>>>> top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
>>>>>
>>>>> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
>>>>>
>>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
>>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
>>>>>
>>>>> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use
>>>>> cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
>>>
>>> shine a light
>>>
>>>>> on successful implementations
>>>>>
>>>>> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent
>>>>> patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the
>>>>> long-term target)
>>>>>
>>>>> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent
>>>>> direction towards convergence
>>>>>
>>>>> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
>>>
>>> verge of a
>>>
>>>>> major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
>>>
>>> potential of
>>>
>>>>> the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
>>>
>>> potential is
>>>
>>>>> more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
>>>
>>> business has
>>>
>>>>> been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
>>>
>>> want to build
>>>
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
>>>>>
>>>>> a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between
>>>>> partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
>>>>>
>>>>> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
>>>>>
>>>>> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out
>>>>> mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire
>>>
>>> movement)
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these
>>>>> problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the
>>>>> catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe
>>>
>>> it. There
>>>
>>>>> also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
>>>
>>> groups that
>>>
>>>>> are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much
>>>>> more complex than simple request-response models).
>>>>>
>>>>> That's it, I guess....
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>> 313.930.5323
>>>>>
>>>>> Monica J. Martin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>>>> On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MacKenzie was
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> could provide
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
>>>>>> original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update
>>>
>>> on ebSOA
>>>
>>>>>> and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ebSOA would
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> assist in defining the next generation architecture for
>>>
>>> ebXML. Your
>>>
>>>>>> thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> john c hardin
>>>>> sanghainteractive.com
>>>>> 313.930.5323 cell
>>>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
>>>
>>> the image
>>>
>>>>> of a global village."
>>>>>
>>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~~~~~~~~~
>>> john c hardin
>>> sanghainteractive.com
>>> 313.930.5323 cell
>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
>>>
>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image
>>> of a global village."
>>>
>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
sanghainteractive.com
313.930.5323 cell
mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of
a global village."
Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]