OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

ebsoa message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin


Thanks - this is ebMS v3, not ebXML v3. Did you mean to refer to ebMS v3
in your original e-mail below?

Kind Regards,
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:37 AM
> To: Chiusano Joseph
> Cc: David Webber (XML); Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; 
> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; 
> tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> 
> Besides the ebXML TC, here is the Feature Preview from last year:
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/4383/ebMSv3F
> eaturePreview
> 
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public 
> information 
> > on this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable 
> > information.
> > 
> > Kind Regards,
> > Joseph Chiusano
> > Booz Allen Hamilton
> > Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
> >>To: David Webber (XML)
> >>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; 
> >>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> >>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> >>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; 
> golsen@contivo.com; John 
> >>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; 
> >>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>
> >>That would be the list, thanks David.
> >>Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to 
> >>encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other
> >>WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious 
> point is that 
> >>we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the other side....
> >>
> >>john
> >>
> >>David Webber (XML) wrote:
> >>
> >>>Joe,
> >>>
> >>>That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> >>>
> >>>We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated 
> architecture 
> >>>that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks, DW
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> >>>To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> >>><Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" 
> >>
> >><david@drrw.info>; "Duane
> >>
> >>>Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; 
> >>><jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; 
> >>><john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>;
> >>
> >><ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>;
> >>
> >>><ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" 
> >>><johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; 
> >>><tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>;
> >>
> >>"James Bryce Clark"
> >>
> >>><jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> >>>Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>><Quote>
> >>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is 
> >>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
> >>>
> >>>Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>>Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> >>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> >>>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; 
> >>>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; 
> >>>>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; 
> >>>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> >>
> >>golsen@contivo.com; John
> >>
> >>>>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; 
> >>>>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> >>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to 
> >>>>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or
> >>
> >>just for
> >>
> >>>>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about 
> >>>>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation 
> with Jamie 
> >>>>the other night, and got some direction from both him and
> >>
> >>from Duane. 
> >>
> >>>>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a 
> braindump 
> >>>>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being 
> on the call 
> >>>>next Wed if allowed.
> >>>>
> >>>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
> >>
> >>with the work
> >>
> >>>>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a 
> facilitator towards
> >>>
> >>>>interoperability among the upcoming business process
> >>
> >>frameworks (WS*,
> >>
> >>>>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain 
> dominance). The 
> >>>>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't
> >>
> >>currently
> >>
> >>>>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have 
> >>>>developed in their shared business processes. For example,
> >>
> >>no one will
> >>
> >>>>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
> >>
> >>industry is a
> >>
> >>>>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare 
> is another 
> >>>>area that is very complex, and requires multiple
> >>
> >>interactions between
> >>
> >>>>large numbers of process participants to complete the information 
> >>>>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >>>>
> >>>>The other reality is that process participants require constant 
> >>>>realtime feeds of information from many points in the
> >>
> >>process, which
> >>
> >>>>are owned and offered by various companies of various 
> sizes and IT 
> >>>>capabilities.
> >>>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating 
> >>>>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> >>>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event 
> causation 
> >>>>techniques and other things like shared industry process 
> B.A.M. on 
> >>>>top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >>>>
> >>>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> >>>>
> >>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is 
> >>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >>>>
> >>>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real 
> world use 
> >>>>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
> >>
> >>shine a light
> >>
> >>>>on successful implementations
> >>>>
> >>>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb 
> and agent 
> >>>>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the 
> >>>>long-term target)
> >>>>
> >>>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent 
> >>>>direction towards convergence
> >>>>
> >>>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> >>
> >>verge of a
> >>
> >>>>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
> >>
> >>potential of
> >>
> >>>>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
> >>
> >>potential is
> >>
> >>>>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
> >>
> >>business has
> >>
> >>>>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
> >>
> >>want to build
> >>
> >>>>it.
> >>>>
> >>>>However, this level of information integration won't 
> happen unless:
> >>>>
> >>>>a) the path to implementation of standards based 
> messaging between 
> >>>>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >>>>
> >>>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >>>>
> >>>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out 
> >>>>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire
> >>
> >>movement)
> >>
> >>>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these 
> >>>>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the 
> >>>>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe
> >>
> >>it. There
> >>
> >>>>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
> >>
> >>groups that
> >>
> >>>>are building shared business processes (which by the way, 
> look much 
> >>>>more complex than simple request-response models).
> >>>>
> >>>>That's it, I guess....
> >>>>
> >>>>John
> >>>>313.930.5323
> >>>>
> >>>>Monica J. Martin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>John,
> >>>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> >>>>
> >>>>MacKenzie was
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> >>>>
> >>>>could provide
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC 
> based on its 
> >>>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update
> >>
> >>on ebSOA
> >>
> >>>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> >>>>
> >>>>ebSOA would
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for
> >>
> >>ebXML. Your
> >>
> >>>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>john c hardin
> >>>>sanghainteractive.com
> >>>>313.930.5323 cell
> >>>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >>>>
> >>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> >>
> >>the image
> >>
> >>>>of a global village."
> >>>>
> >>>>    Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>~~~~~~~~~
> >>john c hardin
> >>sanghainteractive.com
> >>313.930.5323 cell
> >>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >>
> >>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in 
> the image 
> >>of a global village."
> >>
> >>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> 
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in 
> the image of a global village."
> 
>      Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> 
> 
> 


[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]