[no subject]

DW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthew MacKenzie" <mattm@adobe.com>
To: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
Cc: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "David Webber (XML)"
<david@drrw.info>; "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "Duane
Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
<jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; <john.l.jackson@gm.com>;
<psnack@aiag.org>; <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; <ronschuldt@msn.com>;
<golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" <johnc@mbproject.org>;
<mjyader@comcast.net>; <tdean@criticaltech.net>;
<ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; "James Bryce Clark"
<jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin


> John,
>
> Where did this vision come from?  I didn't get the memo.  Certainly, the
> ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that direction, but I
> don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward that vision.
>
> -matt
>
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
> >Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on
> >this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
> >information.
> >
> >Kind Regards,
> >Joseph Chiusano
> >Booz Allen Hamilton
> >Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> >>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
> >>To: David Webber (XML)
> >>Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
> >>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
> >>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
> >>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> >>golsen@contivo.com; John Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net;
> >>tdean@criticaltech.net; ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> >>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>
> >>That would be the list, thanks David.
> >>Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to
> >>encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other
> >>WS* specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious
> >>point is that we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the
> >>other side....
> >>
> >>john
> >>
> >>David Webber (XML) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Joe,
> >>>
> >>>That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> >>>
> >>>We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture
> >>>that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks, DW
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> >>>To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin"
> >>><Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber"
> >>>
> >>>
> >><david@drrw.info>; "Duane
> >>
> >>
> >>>Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>;
> >>><jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>;
> >>><john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>;
> >>>
> >>>
> >><ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>;
> >>
> >>
> >>><ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas"
> >>><johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>;
> >>><tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>"James Bryce Clark"
> >>
> >>
> >>><jamie.clark@oasis-open.org>
> >>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> >>>Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>><Quote>
> >>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
> >>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
> >>>
> >>>Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>Joe
> >>>
> >>>Joseph Chiusano
> >>>Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>>Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com]
> >>>>Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> >>>>To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
> >>>>dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com;
> >>>>tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org;
> >>>>ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com;
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>golsen@contivo.com; John
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net;
> >>>>ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark
> >>>>Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to
> >>>>enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>just for
> >>
> >>
> >>>>ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about
> >>>>addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie
> >>>>the other night, and got some direction from both him and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>from Duane.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump
> >>>>how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call
> >>>>next Wed if allowed.
> >>>>
> >>>>My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>with the work
> >>
> >>
> >>>>from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>interoperability among the upcoming business process
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>frameworks (WS*,
> >>
> >>
> >>>>ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The
> >>>>request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>currently
> >>
> >>
> >>>>mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have
> >>>>developed in their shared business processes. For example,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>no one will
> >>
> >>
> >>>>argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>industry is a
> >>
> >>
> >>>>request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another
> >>>>area that is very complex, and requires multiple
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>interactions between
> >>
> >>
> >>>>large numbers of process participants to complete the information
> >>>>exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >>>>
> >>>>The other reality is that process participants require constant
> >>>>realtime feeds of information from many points in the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>process, which
> >>
> >>
> >>>>are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT
> >>>>capabilities.
> >>>>This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating
> >>>>framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> >>>>that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation
> >>>>techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on
> >>>>top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >>>>
> >>>>To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to:
> >>>>
> >>>>a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
> >>>>closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >>>>
> >>>>b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use
> >>>>cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>shine a light
> >>
> >>
> >>>>on successful implementations
> >>>>
> >>>>c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent
> >>>>patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the
> >>>>long-term target)
> >>>>
> >>>>d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent
> >>>>direction towards convergence
> >>>>
> >>>>My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>verge of a
> >>
> >>
> >>>>major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>potential of
> >>
> >>
> >>>>the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>potential is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>business has
> >>
> >>
> >>>>been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>want to build
> >>
> >>
> >>>>it.
> >>>>
> >>>>However, this level of information integration won't happen unless:
> >>>>
> >>>>a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between
> >>>>partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >>>>
> >>>>b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >>>>
> >>>>c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out
> >>>>mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>movement)
> >>
> >>
> >>>>The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these
> >>>>problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the
> >>>>catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>it. There
> >>
> >>
> >>>>also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>groups that
> >>
> >>
> >>>>are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much
> >>>>more complex than simple request-response models).
> >>>>
> >>>>That's it, I guess....
> >>>>
> >>>>John
> >>>>313.930.5323
> >>>>
> >>>>Monica J. Martin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>John,
> >>>>>On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>MacKenzie was
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc.  Perhaps you
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>could provide
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its
> >>>>>original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>on ebSOA
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>ebSOA would
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>assist in defining the next generation architecture for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>ebXML. Your
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>john c hardin
> >>>>sanghainteractive.com
> >>>>313.930.5323 cell
> >>>>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >>>>
> >>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>the image
> >>
> >>
> >>>>of a global village."
> >>>>
> >>>>    Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>~~~~~~~~~
> >>john c hardin
> >>sanghainteractive.com
> >>313.930.5323 cell
> >>mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com
> >>
> >>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> >>the image of a global village."
> >>
> >>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>