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Obviously some people feel they want to do this to solve an immediate need using schema XSD in this way - and they will have to ensure their partners can support what they are doing. =20 Clearly long term the context driven approach provides a stable coherent model across CPA/BPSS/payloads that as you note - is then transparent to the BPSS itself - and therefore allows us to give implementers the flexibility they need without depending on=20 syntax features of XSD - (which there is no guarantee how the W3C / schema tool implementers / may or may not change). Thanks, DW. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: martin.me.roberts@bt.com=20 To: david@drrw.info ; ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:07 AM Subject: RE: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding David, I was just responding to a request from Anders to allow this = override. I have no axe to grind here. Personally I am in favour of = the BPSS being completely unaware of Late Binding Issues. Martin Roberts xml designer, BT Exact e-mail: martin.me.roberts@bt.com tel: +44(0) 1473 609785 clickdial fax: +44(0) 1473 609834 Intranet Site :http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki=20 -----Original Message----- From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info]=20 Sent: 08 March 2004 18:05 To: Roberts,MME,Martin,XSG3 R; ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding Martin, Wooowha! We leapt too far here IMHO. From a simple extension to allow one small capability to wholesale replacement. I believe we need to use these schema techniques with caution. OAGi found they got mixed results with this feature of Schema and the support provided by the different parsers - and errors generated. We definately do not want to end up with a=20 schema that fails in certain circumstances. Remind me why we are using this substitution group again - isn't much more clear in this instance - and we can just provide people with parameters they can set to control the timetoperform = behaviour...? Thanks, DW. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: martin.me.roberts@bt.com=20 To: ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:59 AM Subject: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding Dear all,=20 I had a discussion with Anders on the Late Binding problem = and we decided that if we changed the TimeToPerform and associated = fields from Attributes to Elements. The reason for this is it will = allow the use of substitution group style replacement of these fields to = allow functionDefinition to be used. If this is acceptable, may be we should make a wholesale = move away from attributes to elements throughout.=20 Martin Roberts xml designer, BT Exact e-mail: martin.me.roberts@bt.com tel: +44(0) 1473 609785 clickdial fax: +44(0) 1473 609834 Intranet Site :http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki=20 pp 16 Floor 5, Orion Building, Adastral Park, Martlesham, Ipswich = IP5 3RE, UK=20 British Telecommunications plc Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in England no. 1800000=20 This electronic message contains information from British = Telecommunications plc which may be privileged or confidential. The = information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity = named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any = disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this = information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message = in error, please notify us by telephone or email (to the numbers or = address above) immediately. ------=_NextPart_000_03FE_01C405BC.547A2CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Understood.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From the theme of the discussion on our = call=20 yesterday - allowing this</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>behaviour and syntax nuance for just = this one area=20 of the BPSS is </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>as far as we need to go with this right = now=20 IMHO.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Obviously some people feel they want to = do this to=20 solve an immediate</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>need using schema XSD in this way - and = they will=20 have to ensure</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>their partners can support what they = are=20 doing. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clearly long term the context driven = approach=20 provides a</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>stable coherent model across=20 CPA/BPSS/payloads that as you note -</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is then transparent to the BPSS itself = - and=20 therefore allows us to</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>give implementers the flexibility they = need without=20 depending on </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>syntax features of XSD - (which there = is no=20 guarantee how the</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>W3C / schema tool implementers = / may or may=20 not change).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, DW.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmartin.me.roberts@bt.com=20 href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com">martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddavid@drrw.info=20 href=3D"mailto:david@drrw.info">david@drrw.info</A> ; <A=20 title=3Debxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20 = href=3D"mailto:ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org">ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.o= rg</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 09, 2004 = 4:07=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ebxml-bp] Late=20 Binding</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D600345908-09032004><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>David,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D600345908-09032004> <FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I was just responding to a request from = Anders to allow=20 this override. I have no axe to grind here. Personally I = am in=20 favour of the BPSS being completely unaware of Late Binding=20 Issues.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><I><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#008080>Martin=20 Roberts</FONT></I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080 size=3D1>xml = designer,</FONT><BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D1>BT = Exact</FONT><BR><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D1>e-mail:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#000000 size=3D1>=20 <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com">martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A></FO= NT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1><BR></FONT><B></B><B><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D1>tel:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#000000 size=3D1>=20 +44(0) 1473 609785</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D1> =20 </FONT></SPAN><A=20 href=3D"http://clickdial.bt.co.uk/clickdial?001609785.cld"><SPAN=20 lang=3Den-gb><U><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D1>clickdial</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN = lang=3Den-gb><BR><B></B><B><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D1>fax:</FONT></B><FONT = face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D1> +44(0)</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1></FONT> = <FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D1>1473 609834<BR></FONT><B><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D1>Intranet Site :</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D1><A=20 = href=3D"http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki">http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/= twiki</A></FONT></SPAN>=20 </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr = align=3Dleft><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = David RR=20 Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 08 March 2004=20 18:05<BR><B>To:</B> Roberts,MME,Martin,XSG3 R;=20 ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ebxml-bp] Late = Binding<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wooowha! We leapt too far = here=20 IMHO.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From a simple extension to allow = one small=20 capability to wholesale</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>replacement.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I believe we need to use these = schema=20 techniques with caution.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OAGi found they got mixed results = with this=20 feature of Schema</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and the support provided by the = different=20 parsers - and errors</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>generated. We = definately do not=20 want to end up with a </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>schema that fails in certain=20 circumstances.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Remind me why we are using this = substitution=20 group again - isn't</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>much more clear in this instance - = and we can=20 just provide people</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>with parameters they can set to = control the=20 timetoperform behaviour...?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, DW.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmartin.me.roberts@bt.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com">martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Debxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20 = href=3D"mailto:ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org">ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.o= rg</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 08, = 2004 11:59=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ebxml-bp] Late=20 Binding</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear all,</FONT>=20 <BR> <FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>I=20 had a discussion with Anders on the Late Binding problem and we = decided=20 that if we changed the TimeToPerform and associated fields from = Attributes=20 to Elements. The reason for this is it will allow the use of = substitution group style replacement of these fields to allow=20 functionDefinition to be used.</FONT></P> <P> <FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>If=20 this is acceptable, may be we should make a wholesale move away = from=20 attributes to elements throughout.</FONT> </P> <P><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><I><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#008080>Martin=20 Roberts</FONT></I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080 size=3D2>xml = designer,</FONT><BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2>BT = Exact</FONT><BR><B></B><B></B><B><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>e-mail:</FONT></B><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2> martin.me.roberts@bt.com</FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>tel:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2> +44(0) 1473=20 609785</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"> = </FONT></SPAN><A=20 href=3D"http://clickdial.bt.co.uk/clickdial?001609785.cld"><SPAN=20 lang=3Den-gb><U><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 color=3D#0000ff>clickdial</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN=20 lang=3Den-gb><BR><B></B><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>fax:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2>=20 +44(0)</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> <FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1473 609834<BR></FONT><B><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Intranet Site :</FONT></B></SPAN><A=20 href=3D"http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki"><SPAN = lang=3Den-gb><U></U><U><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20 = size=3D2>http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN=20 lang=3Den-gb></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>pp</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> <FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2>16 Floor 5, Orion Building, Adastral = Park,=20 Martlesham, Ipswich IP5 3RE, UK</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman">=20 </FONT></SPAN> <UL> <P><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#c0c0c0 = size=3D1>British=20 Telecommunications plc</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D1><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#c0c0c0 = size=3D1>Registered=20 office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ</FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#c0c0c0=20 size=3D1>Registered in England no. 1800000</FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1> </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN = lang=3Den-gb><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D1>This electronic message = contains=20 information from British Telecommunications plc which may be = privileged=20 or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use = of the=20 individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended = recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or = use of=20 the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have = received=20 this electronic message in error, please notify us by telephone = or email=20 (to the numbers or address above)=20 = immediately.</FONT></SPAN></P><BR></UL></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ= UOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_03FE_01C405BC.547A2CA0--
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