ICE - Messaging, Retries, Sotherby's Auctions, eBAY and Reuters News

[David RR Webber <david@drrw.info>]

OK,

I just read these interconnected threads.

I'm with Marty on this one!  Actually I raised this with Monica and Dale 
on Thursday too
on our call together.  I'm also with JJ - I'd like to get rid of this 
flag - its very confusing
as Steve has already shown.

I think if people want to do this kinda stuff - they should be using 
status tracking - eg
aka BCM Appendix B- Linking and Switching spec' and we have tabled this 
feature set
for V3.  If we keep the flag - then we need to rename it at the BTA 
level - to avoid all
confusion with transport retries.  And then - I'm convinced endsWhen / 
beginsWhen
and variables do a much better job anyway - so I'd vote for removing 
this flag still!

Here's my perspective. 

We started with EDI - and there it is clear.  Any kinda payload
hanky-panky is called 'certification testing'.  You do not switch to 
production until payloads
pass your business rules.  This is where CAM is a wonderful tool - since 
it can pre-validate
content formats - prior to them being sent 'live'.  Now if rules change 
in the middle of
production runs (because you hit some old legacy date you forgot about!) 
- that is called
versioning and trading partner context - again - see CAM - you handle 
that by rolling
new rule files and doing a production update - or if you are Walmart - 
telling the grotty
little partner to fix his data!  This is why you send people transaction 
Reject messages
like 997's with specific application error messages in them.

Next - the ICE stuff really went into all this RETRY scheduling in great 
detail - and now they
have version 2 out.  Basically its Bruce Hunts teams ideas of the 
syndication model - eg
participants (this is multi-party collaboration - with ocassionally 
available servers) setup
windows and sliding time frames when they will do interchanges - but 
this has now morphed
into the ICE V2 model and SOAP.  This works great for auction houses 
like Sotherby's
and eBay - where they collect data, and then subscribers come in and get 
it - this is also
the Reuters News model too.

see - http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-ice  for the intractable W3C mumbo-jumbo,

and more clearly this-  
http://www.icestandard.org/resources/Laird_Popkin.pdf

and technical details - http://www.icestandard.org/resources/tech_review.pdf

Basically WfMC and RosettaNet stole this ICE stuff blind and re-purposed 
it.  So here
we are again - full-circle.

My take on this is that BPSS V2 is not where we decide how to handle 
these syndication
models and reties!!  Let's table this to V3.  Since ICE is already 
available for people
wanting to do this - maybe we should be looking at how ICE and BPSS work 
together....?

If we keep this flag (I know how Monica frets this stuff!) - it should 
definately be renamed
IMHO.   Eh - note to Steve Capell - Steve - now you know why I waited 
off replying to
your original post, I don't jump into just any old billabong just 
because its there; there
could be a nasty old croc at the bottom, eh?!

Cheers, DW

p.s. found this by accident searching for ICE stuff: -

 http://dev.zope.org/Members/jim/JimsWiki/XMLProtocolComparison/view