Re: [ebxml-bp] comments on ebBP FAQ

[Monica J Martin <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>]

>schlegel: Hi Sally FAQ editor
>Some very casually formulates questions and some possible answers.
>
>question)
>
>What is the actual value of using business signals? It seems it needs a
>lot of infrastructure to a) monitor them and b) to handle exceptions.
>
>You mention it is used for state alignment, what state are you talking
>about? 
>  
>
Sacha, business signals have GREAT value. They allow optimization 
whereby we can effectively manage our systems when an RA is received or 
start other processing or ready to answer a customer when we have an AA 
(or withdraw early). This is state alignment-shared understanding of the 
parties given their intentional expectations.

>For example a business transaction that has a requesting business
>document and a responding business document. When I sent the requesting
>business document I just have to wait to receive the responding business
>document without all the business signal. 
>
mm1: In larger volume and high dollar investment of orders, the business 
indicators of state alignment are key.  If you never receive a business 
document what do you do Sacha? Do you wait until a timeout to act? If 
you don't receive one or both of the anticipated signals or they are 
exceptions, you can act to move to another vendor to supply your 
product, execute a trade on the stock market saving money, etc.

>The same for the following
>business transaction ... as soon I send the next requesting business
>document my trading partner knows that I received the responding
>business document of the previous business transaction.
>
mm1: Unfortunately not Sacha.  Just because a partner sends another 
business transaction doesn't explicitly model and recognize that the 
previous transaction is complete. Part of this are business mesages and 
signals, the other important component is the expectation of the parties 
at the business level.  Your examples recognize neither.

>possible answer)
>
>business signals are especially useful when it can take a long time
>before the responding business document follows the requsting business
>document. Instead of waiting for the responding business document which
>can be received in 15 days ... the business signals assure you that the
>requesting business document arrived at the trading partner and that it
>started to process it. Potentially you can add user defined business
>signal to send status update,
>
mm1: You could also send a notification with a order status update (just 
as Cristiano Novelli has done). A signal is typically not for order and 
acceptance of that order. It is the processing of the receipt and 
business level processing associated with the order and acceptance (if 
applicable).

> such as work in process completed 10 %,
>work in process completed 20 %. How you make use of this additional
>business information is completely up to you.
>
>question)
>
>couldn't I just use business documents which indicate the status of the
>process.
>
>possible answer)
>  
>
>yes you could but those are not substantive business documents but
>rather state information. Another advantage of business signals is that
>you are making use of standardized business signals (except the ones you
>define in addition to the standard ones). 
>  
>
mm1: Business documents and the business messages are substantive. The 
signals are non-substantive (as it relates to acceptance). They can 
relay information or provide guidance as I overviewed above.

>Monica please check this: Also business signals have semantic meaning
>and go with the common business transaction patterns. So for business
>people these business signals make sense, too.
>  
>
Yes. See previous comments - they provide hints into the progress of the 
activity, the realization of the intent of the parties, recognize and 
utilize the patterns as defined (and their associated semantics and 
principles), etc.

>question)
>
>can an ebBP instance be executed by an execution engine?
>  
>
mm1: Sure - the BSI could be implemented in an engine. 'Execution' - 
what does that mean? Is it computable? Does the process language need to 
be parsable? Yes and yes.  An ebBP definition could be used to drive a 
process for collaboration.

>asnwer)
>
>an ebBP instance is not inteded to be executed per ce but can be
>interpreted for monitoring.
>  
>
mm1: It could also drive a Business Collaboration, at the level it is 
defined. Or monitoring could be broadly conceived ans active or passive 
whereby the process is managed or results and actions stored (and if 
issues arise handled by other means).

>question)
>
>MUST the actual message flow between trading partner follow exactly the
>choreography defined in the ebPB? should the ebBP be enforced?
>
>answer)
>  
>
mm1: These are criteria to be decided by agreements outside of the ebBP. 
However, you would expect that the expectations of the parties, as 
evidenced by those agreements, guide the development of the process 
definition.

>??? potentially yes. Actually it is up to you to decide how to handle
>out of bound messages. If a 1 Million Euro order is not in sync ...
>better think twice whether you reject this message simply because it is
>out of order or not. But generally you use ebBP to standardize the
>collaborative business processe between the different trading
>partners ... so it is intended to be followed as well.
>
>question)
>
>if the ebBP is not enforced what is the purpose of the ebBP?
>  
>
mm1: See the previous comment. If you look at what Stephen Green has 
discussed. They do hope to (politely) guide the process using ebBP and 
UBL SBS business documents. Whether that is a heavy hand (enforcement) 
or a lighter touch, can't say.

>answer)
>
>to have the definition of what is supposed to go on ... so in case
>something goes wrong to immediatly become aware of the exceptiononal
>situation.
>  
>
mm1: Correct.

>question)
>
>OK. I have defined a complicated busienss collaboration between trading
>partners. MUST the business collaboration be completely executed
>electronically or are non automated electronic means still possible,
>such as phone calls, faxes etc.
>  
>
mm1: Or raise a hint so software components can direct a decision ot an 
individual that takes an action to transition to the next activity.

>answer)
>
>ebBP helps to define the collaborative business processes between
>organisations. How you execute these collaborative business processes is
>up to you. If you have a mixed execution of them ... just make sure the
>ebBP interpreting or monitoring system is aware of all types of
>interactions, such as the confirmation of a purchase order over the
>phone.
>
>question)
>
>can an ebBP also be used for other things?
>  
>
mm1: Yes for collaborating parties (rather than business partners). Take 
John Yunker's example where you register three times for a certification 
course, as you hope to be a nurse practitioner one day. That requires 
checking your college records because there is a pre-requisite, 
verifying admissions that you are a student, and more. Many of these 
processes can be distributed, complex, across heterogeneous systems. 
Could use ebBP. Look at the Chapters 9-10 in Glushko's book - prime example.

>answer)
>
>the ebBP is a great help to document the collaborative business process
>and then communicate these collaborative business processes to your
>trading partners. So it defenitely can be used as a documentation tool.
>
>Another usage of ebBP's is to drive a portion of the ebXML CPA
>management process, if you are using the ebXML CPA component at all.
>
>question)
>
>is there a reference BSI implementation?
>  
>
mm1: Sybase, Fujitsui (pre-v2.0.1)

>answer)
>
>no but maybe check with ebSOA and/or ebRM.	
>  
>
mm1: Good questions, Sacha. Sally we should glean the best of theses and 
the answers, as well as any subsequent responses. Thanks.

>Regards
>
>Sacha
>
>
>  
>