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Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory


I'm sorry David, but this is not an option. I would
suggest that we then omit the declaration and provide
a NOTE in the spec (and in the schema document directly
as a comment) that suggests that if necessary because of
the parser's requirements (to include the explicit decl)
that the namespace qualifier be added, providing the
precise statement that needed to be added, etc.

Cheers,

Chris

David Fischer wrote:

> There is another solution -- don't use the xml: namespace in our spec.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
> David Fischer
> 
> Drummond Group.
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>     Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:56 PM
>     To: Ahmed Zahid; 'Christopher Ferris'; Cliff Collins
>     Cc: David Fischer; Tony Weida; dougb62@yahoo.com;
>     ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org; ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
>     Subject: [ebxml-msg] Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema
>     directory
> 
>     In order to use the xml:lang attribute some parsers (e.g. Xerces)
>     require the declaration
> 
>      
> 
>         xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
> 
>      
> 
>     However, there are some other parsers (e.g., XML Authority, Internet
>     Explorer) that choke on the above declaration because they consider
>     the namespace prefix xml as reserved and cannot be redeclared.
> 
>      
> 
>     I have previously raised the question of whether it is appropriate
>     to include the construct
> 
>      
> 
>         xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
> 
>      
> 
>     as part of he schema definition to Scott Vorthmann, architect of the
>     XML Authority product. His answer was as follows (the entire chain
>     of discussion is also attached to this message):
> 
>      
> 
>     "I believe the Namespaces spec is less than specific on this point,
>     but the accepted interpretation is that it is illegal to attempt to
>     define the "xml" prefix... it should be implicitly defined.  XA and
>     XML Spy disagreed on this, and it was raised on a W3C Schema WG
>     discussion list, with the outcome being that it is at best bad
>     practice to define the prefix, even if you define it to the correct
>     namespace.  The best practice is to leave it as implicitly defined."
> 
>     It seems to me the workaround for the above problem is for each MSH
>     implementation to carry out the validation against a local version
>     of the msg-header-2_0.xsd that either includes or excludes the
>     xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace" declaration,
>     depending on the parser that it is using.
> 
>      
> 
>     The question we have to decide is which version we should use as the
>     official
>     http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/schema/msg-header-2_0.xsd.
> 
>      
> 
>     -Arvola
> 
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Ahmed, Zahid <zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com
>         <mailto:zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com>>
>         To: 'Christopher Ferris' <chris.ferris@sun.com
>         <mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com>>; Cliff Collins
>         <collinsc@sybase.com <mailto:collinsc@sybase.com>>
>         Cc: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com <mailto:arvola@tibco.com>>;
>         David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com
>         <mailto:david@drummondgroup.com>>; Tony Weida
>         <rweida@hotmail.com <mailto:rweida@hotmail.com>>; Ahmed, Zahid
>         <zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com
>         <mailto:zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com>>; dougb62@yahoo.com
>         <mailto:dougb62@yahoo.com> <dougb62@yahoo.com
>         <mailto:dougb62@yahoo.com>>
>         Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 5:43 PM
>         Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
> 
>         Preliminary result w/xerces2 also were problematic w/same
>         org.xml.sax.SAXException: namespace declaration
>         for namespace="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
>         for the  draft-cpp-cpa-08b.xsd.
> 
>         However, strange thing was that I managed to get the
>         msg-header-2_0.xsd schema processed correctly using
>         xerces1 parser when I made one change in the
>         msg-header-2_0.xsd, by adding following declaration:
> 
>         xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
> 
>         However, the draft-cpp-cpa-08b.xsd still has same
>         problem w/both xerces1 and xerces2.
> 
>         I'll figure it out if it's my configuration problem,
>         but would be nice to know if others are facing this
>         issue. This was exposed when I started using Castor
>         X2J schema converter. BTW, what's the connection of
>         the xml_lang.xsd with http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace?
> 
>         thanks for the feedback,
>         Zahid
> 
> 
> 
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com]
>         Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:34 PM
>         To: Cliff Collins
>         Cc: Arvola Chan; David Fischer; Tony Weida;
>         zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com;
>         dougb62@yahoo.com
>         Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
> 
> 
>         Unless you need to validate the messages, then there shouldn't
>         be an issue.
> 
>         Are you certain that you need Xerces 1.x and cannot use
>         2.0 beta? I seem to recall that XSS was upgraded so that
>         it could be used with the latest version of Xerces.
> 
>         Cheers,
> 
>         Chris
> 
>         Cliff Collins wrote:
> 
>          > it might have problems. I could NOT switch to a different
>         parser because of
>          > dependencies on that parser (xss from IBM for signing and
>         others).
>          >
>          > David, I don't remember if Sterling used xerces and had these
>         problems. Last
>          > I remember Cyclone, Btrade and Sybase were all using xerces.
>          >
>          > Cliff
>          >
>          >
>          >>-----Original Message-----
>          >>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>          >>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:29 PM
>          >>To: Cliff.Collins@sybase.com; David Fischer; Tony Weida;
>          >>zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com
>          >>Cc: chris.ferris@sun.com; dougb62@yahoo.com
>          >>Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>I wonder if the Xerces parser 1.4.x is buggy. The Xerces Java
>          >>Parser Readme
>          >>for the 1.4.4 Release indicates that it provides only beta
>         support for XML
>          >>Schema 1.0. A cursory glance at the limitation section of the
>          >>release notes
>          >>gives me the impression that its support for xsi:schemaLocation
>          >>specification may be flaky. Consider the following excerpt
>         which suggests
>          >>that in an instance document, the schema location can be
>         specified in the
>          >>following form:
>          >>
>          >>    xsi:schemaLocation='http://my.com document.xsd'
>          >>
>          >>But this is not even correct syntax. The W3C Recommendation
>         requires the
>          >>right hand side of the assignment be a string made up of two
>          >>components: the
>          >>namespace in question and the corresponding schema location.
>          >>
>          >>I know the error Collin has seen is different from the one
>         Zahid has
>          >>reported. I suspect that Zahid may be using an even older
>         version of the
>          >>parser. It does not seem to understand the concept of
>         importing from a
>          >>namespace with an associated schema location.
>          >>
>          >>-Arvola
>          >>
>          >>EXCERPT FROM XERCES RELEASE NOTES:
>          >>
>          >>Schema grammars can be associated with instance documents in
>         two ways. An
>          >>application developer may use the
>          >>http://apache.org/xml/properties/schema/external-schemaLocation and the
>          >>http://apache.org/xml/properties/schema/external-noNamespaceSchemaLocation
>          >>properties to associate schemas with namespaces appearing in
>         instance
>          >>documents; see the "properties" section of this documentation
>         for details.
>          >>If this property is not set, then each document that uses XML
>         Schema
>          >>grammars must specify the location of the grammars it uses by
>         using an
>          >>xsi:schemaLocation attribute if they use namespaces, and an
>          >>xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation attribute otherwise. These are
>          >>usually placed
>          >>on the root / top-level element in the document, though they
>         may occur on
>          >>any element; for more details see XML Schema Part 1 section
>         4.3.2. Here is
>          >>an example with no target namespace:
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>     <document
>          >>  xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
>          >>  xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation='document.xsd'>
>          >>...
>          >></document>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>Here is an example with a target namespace. Note that it is
>         an error to
>          >>specify a different namespace than the target namespace
>         defined in the
>          >>Schema.
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>     <document
>          >>  xmlns='http://my.com'
>          >>  xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance'
>          >>  xsi:schemaLocation='http://my.com document.xsd'>
>          >>...
>          >></document>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>-----Original Message-----
>          >>From: Cliff Collins <collinsc@sybase.com>
>          >>To: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>; Arvola Chan
>          >><arvola@tibco.com>;
>          >>Tony Weida <rweida@hotmail.com>
>          >>Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:52 PM
>          >>Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>
>          >>>These are the errors that we get from xerces 1.4.x parser
>         when validation
>          >>>
>          >>is
>          >>
>          >>>on.
>          >>>
>          >>>12:56:09 [TRACE] [TRP:EBXMLEnvelope rec#0]:
>         DocumentBuilderFactory used:
>          >>>org.apache.xerces.jaxp.DocumentBuilderFactoryImpl@178933
>          >>>12:56:13 [TRACE] [TRP:SAXErrorHandler rec#0]: XML parse
>         error: (3,270)
>          >>>Error: constraint 3.x.3: Attribute 'form' cannot appear in
>         element
>          >>>'attribute'.
>          >>>12:56:13 [TRACE] [TRP:SAXErrorHandler rec#0]: XML parse
>         error: (3,270)
>          >>>Schema error: prefix : [xml] cannot be resolved to a URI.
>          >>>12:56:13 [TRACE] [TRP:SAXErrorHandler rec#0]: XML parse
>         error: (3,270)
>          >>>Schema error: no attribute named "lang" was defined in
>         schema : .
>          >>>12:56:13 [TRACE] [TRP:SAXErrorHandler rec#0]: XML parse
>         error: (21,37)
>          >>>Attribute "xml:lang" must be declared for element type
>         "eb:Description".
>          >>>
>          >>>
>          >>>>-----Original Message-----
>          >>>>From: David Fischer [mailto:david@drummondgroup.com]
>          >>>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:50 AM
>          >>>>To: Arvola Chan; Tony Weida
>          >>>>Cc: Cliff.Collins@sybase.com
>          >>>>Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema
>         directory
>          >>>>
>          >>>>
>          >>>>This is what Cliff sent me when I asked.
>          >>>>
>          >>>>David.
>          >>>>
>          >>>>-----Original Message-----
>          >>>>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>          >>>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:42 PM
>          >>>>To: David Fischer; Tony Weida
>          >>>>Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema
>         directory
>          >>>>
>          >>>>
>          >>>>David:
>          >>>>
>          >>>>Zahid sent me inquiries originally. I recommended that he
>         get in
>          >>>>touch with
>          >>>>you (see attached message).
>          >>>>
>          >>>>Can you tell me what is the exact error that is trapped by the
>          >>>>interoperability participants? Does that error occur
>         universally? I can
>          >>>>
>          >>do
>          >>
>          >>>>some further research into the issue if you can provide me
>         with the
>          >>>>
>          >>actual
>          >>
>          >>>>error reported by a specific parser.
>          >>>>
>          >>>>I believe RosettaNet schema definitions make use of the
>         xml:lang
>          >>>>construct.
>          >>>>I am surprised that the construct is causing problem.
>          >>>>
>          >>>>Regards,
>          >>>>-Arvola
>          >>>>
>          >>>>-----Original Message-----
>          >>>>From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
>          >>>>To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>; Tony Weida
>         <rweida@hotmail.com>
>          >>>>Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:25 AM
>          >>>>Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema
>         directory
>          >>>>
>          >>>>
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>Arvola, I got another message yesterday concerning
>         xml:lang.  The
>          >>>>>
>          >>interop
>          >>
>          >>>>>participants are trapping this error and continuing with
>          >>>>>
>          >>validation but
>          >>I
>          >>
>          >>>>think
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>this is going to be a widespread issue.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>If you would like to answer this query, feel free.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>David.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>-----Original Message-----
>          >>>>>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>          >>>>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM
>          >>>>>To: Tony Weida
>          >>>>>Cc: ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
>          >>>>>Subject: [ebxml-cppa] Re: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>Tony:
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>Peter and I are using different commerically available
>         schema editor
>          >>>>>products (XML Spy versus XML Authority) that support the W3C
>          >>>>>
>          >>Recommended
>          >>
>          >>>>>version of XML Schema. We can certainly make sure that the
>         schema is
>          >>>>>understandable by both of these schema editors.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>I have been responsible for editing both the MSG and CPP/A
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>schemas. The MSG
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>schema has been used within the UCC sponsored
>         interoperability tests
>          >>>>>coordinated by the Drummond Group. So far, the only issue
>         I have heard
>          >>>>>
>          >>of
>          >>
>          >>>>is
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>that one of the parsers cannot deal with the Annotation
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>construct. We have
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>to decide whether we should retain the use of annotations for
>          >>>>>comments/documentation purposes within the CPP/A schema.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>It would also be useful to ask for volunteers among the TC
>         members to
>          >>>>>
>          >>use
>          >>
>          >>>>>their favorite XML parser to verify that they can
>         understand the CPP/A
>          >>>>>schema. One thing they must ensure is that the parser at
>         the W3C
>          >>>>>Recommendation XML Schema level.
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>-Arvola
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>-----Original Message-----
>          >>>>>From: Tony Weida <rweida@hotmail.com>
>          >>>>>To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>; Dale Moberg
>          >>>>><dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>
>          >>>>>Date: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:02 AM
>          >>>>>Subject: Fw: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>>Arvola and Dale,
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>While I don't think this note raises a particular problem
>          >>>>>>
>          >>for CPPA, it
>          >>
>          >>>>>>reminded me that we probably want to test at least the final
>          >>>>>>
>          >>version of
>          >>
>          >>>>the
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>>XSD with several parsers including XERCES.
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>Tony
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>          >>>>>>From: "Ahmed, Zahid" <zahid.ahmed@commerceone.com>
>          >>>>>>To: <david@drummondgroup.com>
>          >>>>>>Cc: "'Tony Weida'" <rweida@hotmail.com>
>          >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:42 PM
>          >>>>>>Subject: RE: v. 2.0 ebXML xsd schema directory
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>David:
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>I am trying to process the:
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>- msg-header-2_0.xsd,
>          >>>>>>>- draft-msg-header-06.xsd, and
>          >>>>>>>- draft-cpp-cpa-08b.xsd
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>schema defintions using the Apache xerces1 parser,
>          >>>>>>>DOM2, and Castor XML to Java bean processor.
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>In all 3 xsd files I seem to have schema processor
>          >>>>>>>problems: it does not seem to process the following
>          >>>>>>>directive correctly:
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>><import namespace="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
>          >>>>>>>schemaLocation="http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml
>          >>>>>>>msg/schema/xml_lang.xsd"/>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>Error:
>          >>>>>>>org.xml.sax.SAXException: namespace '
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>>>><http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace'>  not declared in
>          >>>>>>>schema
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>        at
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>org.exolab.castor.xml.schema.reader.ImportUnmarshaller.<init>(Im
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>portUnmars
>          >>>>h
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>a
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>>>lle
>          >>>>>>>r.java:115)
>          >>>>>>>        at
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>org.exolab.castor.xml.schema.reader.SchemaUnmarshaller.startElem
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>ent(Schema
>          >>>>U
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>n
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>>>mar
>          >>>>>>>shaller.java:387)
>          >>>>>>>        at
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>org.apache.xerces.parsers.SAXParser.startElement(SAXParser.java:1340)
>          >>
>          >>>>>>>        at
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>org.apache.xerces.validators.common.XMLValidator.callStartElemen
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>t(XMLValid
>          >>>>a
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>t
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>>>or.
>          >>>>>>>java:1284)
>          >>>>>>>        at
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>org.apache.xerces.framework.XMLDocumentScanner.scanElement(XMLDo
>          >>>>>>
>          >>>>cumentScan
>          >>>>n
>          >>>>
>          >>>>>e
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>>>r.j
>          >>>>>>>ava:1806)
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>Any alternative ideas w.r.t. changing the xsd files'
>          >>>>>>>directive w.r.t. above problem.?
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>thanks,
>          >>>>>>>Zahid
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>>>
>          >>>>>
>          >>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>          >>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the
>         subscription
>          >>>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>          >>>>>
>          >
> 




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