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Subject: [ebxml-cppa] RE: BPSS and BCP, was Exception Handling
Tony, See replies below. Regards, Marty ************************************************************************************* Martin W. Sachs IBM T. J. Watson Research Center P. O. B. 704 Yorktown Hts, NY 10598 914-784-7287; IBM tie line 863-7287 Notes address: Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM Internet address: mwsachs @ us.ibm.com ************************************************************************************* "Tony Fletcher" <tony_fletcher@btope To: "Ebxml-Cppa List" <ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Tony Fletcher" <tony. nworld.com> fletcher@choreology.com>, Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS cc: <plevine@telcordia.com>, "'Matthew MacKenzie'" <matt@xmlglobal.com>, <martin. 08/14/2002 04:57 PM me.roberts@bt.com>, "BPSS List Ebtwg" <ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org>, "BCPS \(list\)" <ebtwg-bcs@lists.ebtwg.org>, <ebtwg@lists.ebtwg.org>, "'Duane Nickull'" <duane@xmlglobal.com>, "DMW" <dmw@nwlink.com>, <derrick.evans@bt.com>, "Hayes, Brian \(ebTWG\)" <brian.hayes@collaborativedomain.com> Subject: RE: BPSS and BCP, was Exception Handling Dear Marty, Thanks for the affirmation and the correction - I fortuitously picked a bad example! So the application will need to make some initial call to kick things off, and that initial call will have to indicate the CPA (instance) to use, which in turn will indicate the BPSS instance and network address, messaging characteristics and security characteristics (and anything else?) of the partner MWS: Right. (several CPAs involved for a multi party situation but all pointing to same BPSS instance?). MWS: Right. Since BPSS handles multiparty as a set of binary collaborations, the Stuff under CollaborationRole will presumably be different in each of those CPAs. Presumably the business documents flow across the API? MWS: Correct. What else might flow across the API? MWS: This is unclear. ebXML never standardized an API between the application and BSI. I guess these questions are in the borderland between CPPA, BPSS and BCP. MWS: ...and in the grey area between the BSI and the application. Best Regards Tony A M Fletcher Cohesions 1.0 (TM) Business transaction management software for application coordination Choreology Ltd., 13 Austin Friars, London EC2N 2JX UK Tel: +44 (0) 20 76701787 Mobile: +44 (0) 7801 948219 tony.fletcher@choreology.com <mailto:tony.fletcher@choreology.com> (Home: amfletcher@iee.org <mailto:amfletcher@iee.org> ) -----Original Message----- From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com] Sent: 14 August 2002 13:43 To: Tony Fletcher Cc: Hayes, Brian (ebTWG); derrick.evans@bt.com; DMW; 'Duane Nickull'; ebtwg@lists.ebtwg.org; BCPS (list); BPSS List Ebtwg; martin.me.roberts@bt.com; 'Matthew MacKenzie'; plevine@telcordia.com Subject: Re: BPSS and BCP, was Exception Handling I agree completely. People need to focus on BPSS as being where the rubber meets the road with regard to execution of a particular instance of the collaboration. BPSS also needs sufficient explanatory text to satisfy the needs of the middleware and application designers. With regard to one detail in Tony's note: Information about a role that resolves to the network address is in the CPA. The BPSS/CPA deployment tool has to enter this information into the run-time database. The application should not have to make an API call to provide the network address. Perhaps the single most important reason for having a CPA and BPSS instance is to get the application code out of the business of configuring the middleware. Regards, Marty **************************************************************************** ********* Martin W. Sachs IBM T. J. Watson Research Center P. O. B. 704 Yorktown Hts, NY 10598 914-784-7287; IBM tie line 863-7287 Notes address: Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM Internet address: mwsachs @ us.ibm.com **************************************************************************** ********* Tony Fletcher <tony. To: BPSS List Ebtwg <ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org>, "Hayes, Brian (ebTWG)" <brian. fletcher@choreology hayes@collaborativedomain.com>, DMW <dmw@nwlink.com>, "'Matthew MacKenzie'" .com> <matt@xmlglobal.com>, "'Duane Nickull'" <duane@xmlglobal.com>, "BCPS (list)" <ebtwg- bcs@lists.ebtwg.org> 08/14/2002 05:41 AM cc: martin.me.roberts@bt.com, plevine@telcordia.com, derrick.evans@bt.com, ebtwg@lists.ebtwg.org Subject: BPSS and BCP, was Exception Handling Dear Folks, I would like to get your reaction to the following postulation: A completed CPPA (i.e. a CPPA instance) contains configuration information for a business system. The CPPA includes (by reference) a BPSS instance (or, in principle, some other description of the business process(es)) to be executed under that agreement. Thus I am coming to see the BPSS instance as containing configuration information for BCP. If this last statement is true then we need to do two things (quite obviously, but the ramifications may not be quite so obvious): 1) Design BCP so that it can instantiate its state machines with values of variables, parameters, names, etc picked out of the BPSS instance. 2) Consider BPSS carefully to ensure that it has all the appropriate values, and no inappropriate ones. With respect to these two points we need to consider carefully the information we expect to be feed across the API from the business application into the BCP state machines. So for instance the BPSS may provide the value for a role name of a remote partner as being 'supplier', but information that resolves to a network address would be fed across the API for a particular use of this BPSS instance. If you all agree with this then we should get this written into the UeB technical architecture as the relationship between BPSS and BCP and carry the implications through as we evolve BPSS and BCP. If you do not agree then please spell out where you think the error is and what your understanding of the BPSS - BCP relationship is. Thanks to all Best Regards Tony A M Fletcher Cohesions 1.0 (TM) Business transaction management software for application coordination Choreology Ltd., 13 Austin Friars, London EC2N 2JX UK Tel: +44 (0) 20 76701787 Mobile: +44 (0) 7801 948219 tony.fletcher@choreology.com <mailto:tony.fletcher@choreology.com> (Home: amfletcher@iee.org <mailto:amfletcher@iee.org> ) -----Original Message----- From: DMW [mailto:dmw@nwlink.com] Sent: 13 August 2002 22:18 To: 'Matthew MacKenzie'; 'Duane Nickull' Cc: martin.me.roberts@bt.com; plevine@telcordia.com; derrick.evans@bt.com; ebtwg@lists.ebtwg.org Subject: RE: Exception Handling, was -> Re: Levine 7/29/2002: BCP Visit for Arch Mtg 7/30 Guys, The Business Collaboration Protocol (BCP) team is addressing all this 'stuff' right now; nested state machines, technical protocol to keep object-in-state alignment between partners, .... and BCP supports the UMM business layers so you can deal with all those BET/BCP+MC 'funky' real world business cases !!!! You should really consider camping out with the BCP folks for a while. I just described BCP / BPSS to someone as : BPSS is like a hardcoded runtime spec, while BCP describes a universal UMM business runtime engine for any business process problem. I advise NOT putting more 'sticky tape' on the BPSS till you check out BCP. -Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.ebtwg.org/ob/adm.pl>
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