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Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-iic] Simple trading partner configurationfor ebMS


Marty,

Your comments are right on the money.  I don't really want to start  
flooding the world with more standards, but I really want to see a  
simple and short TPA in the spirit of the schema I just sent out.  The  
"profile" concept is interesting.  I would like to see a set of  
profiles in the form of a few schemas which use the core CPPA schema as  
a type library.  Each schema would have a slightly different namespace,  
so that a CPPA implementation would be able to understand which profile  
is in use.

Does that jive with what you were thinking?

Cheers,

Matt

On Sunday, August 25, 2002, at 12:43  PM, Martin W Sachs wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Thanks for the proposal. I'm sure that the team will give it serious
> attention.
>
> I have a concerrn that publishing a normative subset schema may confuse
> more than it will help. It is not clear that only one subset schema  
> would
> be sufficient. I have the following thoughts.
>
> What may be the right subset schema for your customer set is not
> necessarily the right one for other customer sets. Another approach,  
> which
> has worked well in other feature-rich standards, is to define one or  
> more
> "CPPA Profiles" that apply to different customer sets, industry  
> verticals,
> etc. Such a profile defines those features that enterprises in a given
> "sub-industry" must support.  It can specify values for those elements  
> and
> attributes are the same in every CPP or CPA in the group and list those
> features whose cardinality includes minOccurs="0" that are not to be  
> used.
> Each profile would include CPP and CPA Templates (a prototype of the  
> subset
> CPP or CPA) that expose the required features and leave out everything  
> not
> needed whose cardinality includes minOccurs="0". These profiles could  
> be
> developed by the appropriate industry groupings, coordinating with the  
> CPPA
> team. The could be published either by the individual groupings or by  
> OASIS
> as technical reports. With this approach, there is no need to have  
> subset
> schemas since the subset CPPs and CPAs would validate against the  
> standard
> CPPA schema. Also, by not omitting CPPA elements and attributes whose
> cardinality is greater than zero, standard CPA deployment tools and  
> run-
> time middleware would be able to handle the subset CPAs.
>
> A CPP-CPA composition tool could be designed to be tailored for  
> profiles
> and to show the CPP or CPA author minimal complexity.  Its GUI would
> present to the author only those elements and attributes that require
> decisions for the selected profile.  Elements and attributes of  
> cardinality
> minOccurs="0" that the profile defines as absent would not be shown to  
> the
> author.  Also, elements and attributes whose values are fixed by the
> profile would not be shown to the author. The tool could also include a
> feature to be used for defining new profiles. Profile support should  
> be a
> good value-added opportunity for CPPA tool vendors.
>
> Regards,
> Marty
>
>
>
> *********************************************************************** 
> **************
>
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> *********************************************************************** 
> **************
>
>
>
>                       Matthew MacKenzie
>                       <matt@xmlglobal.         To:       Dale Moberg  
> <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>
>                       com>                     cc:        
> ebxml-iic@lists.oasis-open.org, "Cppalist (E-mail)" <ebxml-
>                                                  
> cppa@lists.oasis-open.org>
>                       08/24/2002 12:16         Subject:  [ebxml-cppa]  
> Re: [ebxml-iic] Simple trading partner configuration
>                       PM                        for ebMS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dale,
>
> Here you go, The schema and a sample is attached.  I have to say that
> this schema came to be out of a perception that CPA is a bit too
> complex for the average user.  My company has fully implemented CPA v2,
> so the design of CPA isn't really at issue.  I've recently had to
> maintain 24+ CPAs, and I can tell you that it is a serious pain.
>
> Maybe this group could consider a Simple CPA schema, which is a subset
> of the full schema.  I believe the docbook guys did this as well to try
> and make it easier to get users feet wet.  70/30 or even 60/40 is
> probably the kind of markup reduction I'm thinking of.  Maybe schema
> modularization is the name of the game.  You can decide.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 06:38  PM, Dale Moberg wrote:
>
>> Hi Matt,
>>
>> I skimmed the schema you provided. I guess it
>> is one of the "70/30" optimization gambits.
>> Anders from OpenEbXML has proposed a similar
>> lightweight schema within the JSR 157 group.
>>
>> As such, I think it might be worthwhile sending
>> to the ebxml CPPA TC for consideration. It
>> is especially interesting in that it might promote
>> adoption of profile/protocol-binding technologies,
>> because of its minimalisticYetEssential view of
>> configuring the b2b side of the MSH.
>>
>> So the advantage I see is that it is geared for the
>> ebXML MSH (it may ignore some of the PKI support
>> the security risk document recommended--I would
>> think about adding that in, at least optionally).
>>
>> A political problem is that it more or less dispenses with the BPSS
>> hooks (and so becomes choreography/flow/orchestration/process
>> independent). That may be feasible via the modularity doctrine,
>> however.
>>
>> Would you be willing to cross post the example and schema
>> to ebXML-CPPA? Maybe a few words in support of a CPA-lite
>> could accompany the post?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dale Moberg
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:matt@xmlglobal.com]
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 4:07 PM
>> To: ebxml-iic@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: [ebxml-iic] Simple trading partner configuration for ebMS
>>
>>
>> Team,
>>
>> As we discussed during the F2F today, I've put together a simple CPA
>> replacement that has the bare minimum configuration information for 2
>> parties.  These could be what we use for specifying MSH configuration
>> for conformance and interoperability.  It also could form a CPA
>> replacement, which is designed over time to meet vendor needs as per
>> discussions we had today (Myself, Hatem@IPNet, Jeff@Cyclone).
>>
>> If you're interested in this development for use beyond testing,  
>> please
>> help me out by supplying feedback -- is there anything missing that a
>> good MSH needs out of a TPA?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Matt
>
>
> #### tpa.xsd has been removed from this note on August 25 2002 by  
> Martin W
> Sachs
> #### tpaSample.xml has been removed from this note on August 25 2002 by
> Martin W Sachs
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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