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Subject: RE: [ebxml-jc] RE: update on Versatile B2B gateway

Title: update on Versatile B2B gateway



From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pim.vandereijk@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:13 AM
To: ebxml-jc@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [ebxml-jc] RE: update on Versatile B2B gateway


Hello Jacques,


This document was mentioned on the call yesterday, and I remembered I hadn't provided feedback to it yet.


First of all, I think it is a really good document, which I think should be posted, when final, on the ebXML.org site (I'll check with my colleagues).  There is a recently updated OASIS template for white papers you could use for it. 



Some other comments:

Page 2, when a message is not a service invocation.

Implicit in the first bullet where you mention BPM, the message may be just a way to transport e.g. documents intended for human consumption.  There may be a mapping from ebMS header fields RefToMessageId and ConversationId to workflow processes or to route the document to the responsible employee.  There are actual projects using ebXML for this, e.g. in eGovernment to reduce paper-based processing.


<JD> right, the mapping of the message to the process instance is likely to involve content semantics, i.e. some value in a field. If a service were to do this, its job would be to dispatch the doc to the right service instance after looking at this content (say a conversationId). Rather contrived... Plus, as a doc may be expected at different places in the process instance, and again the "type" of the document is not necessarily 1-to-1 with the workstep in the process, then the service would not have this intelligence. It would be a rather lame publisher to a queue.


Page 4 and Figure 1 on page 5, these mention ebMSv3.  The current OASIS/ISO 15000-2 Standard offers many of the same benefits, and its security and reliability features (while further updated in some WS specifications) are quite stable and reliable.  It is good to mention the added features of ebMSv3, but I would suggest you talk about ebMS (without version number) in the general text. I am a bit concerned that people may interpret this as saying there is no (longer any) value in ebMS2 today, which isn't true and may upset some people that actually use it today.  This comment applies to other figures.


<JD> Right, Fig 1 should have just ebMS. Now, every other fig involves message "pulling" which is only supported by V3. Also, Fig 2 shows a "SOAP intermediary" usage of the MSH that was not possible in ebMS2. However, Fig 3 could be made ebMS too: the pulling is not essential to Fig 3. I agree that the doc should also apply to ebMS2 even if V3 provides additional support for the SOA pattern. Will modify.


Perhaps this and other diagrams should also explicitly indicate that within the enterprise SOAP requests are just one way of connecting to backend systems (JMS, MQ, Tib/Rendezvous etc.). This is implicit in later references to integration brokers.


<JD> yes. Although Fig 2 and 4 are focusing on the SOAP request case (using the MSH for routing WS invocations).


Page 5, this suggests WS-Addressing is effectively a prerequisite to support this pattern, which seems too strong (it is useful, but couldn't the functionality described be achieved using more convential methods?).


<JD> good point: WS-A is mostly of interest when forwarding to WS on the back-end. Will make this requirement more relative to this.


As a more general comment, the document is mainly focussed on the connectivity and decoupling features of the B2B gateway. It does not discuss trading configuration, partner management, activity monitoring and business process (choreography) support.  But perhaps those deserve separate white papers ...


<JD> Right. The doc just addresses one function (connectivity) in the SOA architecture, and this "integration pattern" does not exclude these other functions - it only involves messaging. Clearly there should be other integration patterns involving other ebXML specs - it is just we expect them to be separately described. I should make that clearer.


I hope you find these comments useful.


<JD> definitely - thanks!


Best regards,


Pim van der Eijk









Since there will be quite some time until ebMS

I would suggest you mention In figure  



From: Jacques Durand [mailto:JDurand@us.fujitsu.com]
Sent: 08 December 2005 02:37
To: 'Monica J Martin'; Breininger, Kathryn R; Ian Jones
Cc: 'Pim van der Eijk'
Subject: update on Versatile B2B gateway

An update of the previous "Versatile B2B gateway" SOA design pattern draft, that was submitted to ebSOA TC.
- The "synchronous WS request-response" case was added as one of the cases for Fig 2.
- Fig 3 was remodeled to show the document exchanges and its back-end binding to be appropriate in case of business processes.


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