Re: non-ebXML links - T2

[Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>]

(I may be repeating myself but just in case...)

OK.  That makes sense but the spec. doesn't say it and should say it.

One thing has to be clarified.  There is a difference between "transport
layer" and "external to the MSH".  "External to the MSH" could be in a
higher or lower layer.  The IBM MQSeries example that people keep
mentioning is a higher layer and would not usually be considered
"transport".  In the MS spec, "transport" is either SMTP or HTTP, neither
of which are reliable.

I would agree to the meaning of "external to the MSH", with suitable
explanation, but would prefer that the value of the attribute be changed
from "Transport" to something broader like "other", which would cover both
HTTPR (when standardized) and reliability in a higher layer.

Regards,
Marty

*************************************************************************************

Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
*************************************************************************************



christopher ferris <chris.ferris@east.sun.com>@Sun.COM on 09/17/2001
10:36:26 AM

Sent by:  Chris.Ferris@Sun.COM


To:   Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
cc:   David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>, Dan Weinreb
      <dlw@exceloncorp.com>, ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:  Re: non-ebXML links - T2



All,

The value "Transport" means that the reliable semantics of
OnceAndOnlyOnce are provided for by the transport layer, not the
MSH layer of software.

It means that the enforcement of the deliverySemantics are
provided for external to the MSH such that the ebXML RM
protocol artifacts are not used/necessary.

Cheers,

Chris

Martin W Sachs wrote:
>
> The meaning of the value "Transport" is not defined for
> reliableMessagingMethod.  I don't think there is universal agreement with
> your surmise.  The usual meaning of the word "Transport" and the meaning
> intended almost everywhere in the MS spec. is the layer below ebXML-MS,
and
> the only bindings that we have provided are for HTTP and SMTP, neither of
> which is reliable.  If the team means that "Transport" means "Other"
here,
> the spec should explain this point and, preferably, change the value to
> "Other".
>
> David Burdett take note.  This is a comment on V1.1.
>
> Regards,
> Marty
>
>
*************************************************************************************

>
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
>
*************************************************************************************

>
> "David Fischer" <david@drummondgroup.com> on 09/17/2001 12:55:30 AM
>
> To:   Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "Dan Weinreb"
<dlw@exceloncorp.com>
> cc:   <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject:  RE: non-ebXML links
>
> My understanding is that a value of reliableMessagingMethod="Transport"
> essentially means Other.  There are other RM methods which can produce
> onceandonlyonce and not be ebXML.  This is not the same as
> deliverySemantics="BestEffort" which really means no RM.
>
> David Fischer
> Drummond Group.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 8:43 PM
> To: Dan Weinreb
> Cc: dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; david@drummondgroup.com;
> david.burdett@commerceone.com; chris.ferris@east.sun.com;
> arvola@tibco.com; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: non-ebXML links
>
> If the MS specification provides only one reliable-messaging algorithm,
> then this is fully covered by the deliverySemantics attribute and there
is
> no need for the reliableMessagingMethod attribute.
>
> Also, I can't find any description of the what the "Transport" value of
> reliableMessagingMethod is for,  Since the word "Transport" appears in
the
> header of each page, it's a bit hard to search on this one, especially
with
> Acrobat's very primitive search function.  I assume that what is meant is
> that reliability is provided, if at all, by the Transport layer.  We
don't
> have a binding for any transport that provides reliable messaging. I
> suppose that there will be one some day for HTTPR if it becomes a
standard.
> In any case, reliableMessagingMethod="Transport" is exactly the same as
> deliverySemantics="bestEffort".  Both mean that reliability is not
provided
> by ebXML; it MIGHT be provided by the transport.  So, I see no reason to
> have both.
>
> Regards,
> Marty
>
>
********************************************************************************

>
> *****
>
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
>
********************************************************************************

>
> *****
>
> Dan Weinreb <dlw@exceloncorp.com> on 09/16/2001 09:11:50 PM
>
> Please respond to Dan Weinreb <dlw@exceloncorp.com>
>
> To:   Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
> cc:   dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com, david@drummondgroup.com,
>       david.burdett@commerceone.com, chris.ferris@east.sun.com,
>       arvola@tibco.com, ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject:  Re: non-ebXML links
>
>    Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:48:02 -0400
>    From: Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>
>
>                for the sake of everyone's sanity (including
>    our own), we should eliminate all mention of non-ebXML protocols. They
>    are implementer choices, not part of the ebXML-MS spec.
>
> Just to make sure that I understand your position: Do we also feel
> that we should eliminate the reliableMessagingMethod attribute,
> section 8.7.4, and section 10.1.2?
>
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