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Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Comments on ebMS_v1.04c

I don't believe that all those signals reach the application.  If not, they
would not necessarily prevent the application from issuing a second request
before the first one got to its destination.



Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com

David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com> on 10/16/2001 09:59:02 AM

To:    Dan Weinreb <dlw@exceloncorp.com>, Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
cc:    arvola@tibco.com, ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org,
Subject:    RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Comments on ebMS_v1.04c

Dan, in your example, couldn't you just wait on the ASN until after you
received MSH signals on the Invoice?  Just ask for an Acknowledgment with
syncReply=true.  This seems much simpler than the complexity of Message
Ordering.  In the case of HTTP, this could be only a matter of moments.


David Fischer
Drummond Group.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Weinreb [mailto:dlw@exceloncorp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 8:04 AM
To: mwsachs@us.ibm.com
Cc: arvola@tibco.com; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org;
Subject: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Comments on ebMS_v1.04c

   Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:37:02 -0400
   From: Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>

   New MWS comment:  I have never understood the value of
   messageOrderSemantics, especially since ordering is performed separately
   for each conversation.

I understand what you're saying here and you have an interesting point.
I checked this out with my colleague Mike Rowley, who says:

   Not quite.  Within a single collaboration, it is sometimes important
   that the
   messaging system not reverse the order of messages.  The BPSS may
   example, that an Invoice be sent and then an Advanced Shipment Notice
   in that order.  Neither of these have response messages so they may be
   one right after the other.  The code on the other side will be written
   on the
   assumption that the ASN will never arrive before the Invoice, so if the
   messaging system gets them out of order, it will break the

That is, the BPSS can specify a BinaryCollaboration that has two
BusinessTransactionActivities, one after the other in a particular
order, each one of them a BusinessTransaction specifying a document
flow consisting only of a "request".

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