RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces

[David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>]

Actually, I think the intent is that xsi:schemaLocation be used, all the time.

Regards,

David.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:21 PM
To: David Fischer; ian.c.jones@bt.com
Cc: ebXML Msg
Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces


David:

The message from Chris earlier today (see attached)
states:

"The thing I have a problem with in using URN's for
the namespace is that many parsers want to find the
schema at the URI of the namespace. If we were to
use a URN there, it would necessitate that either
xsi:schemaLocation be specified explicitly in ALL
messages or else a mapping would need to be made
between the URN and the schema location."

I am not quite clear on what Chris means by
"or else a mapping would need to be made
between the URN and the schema location".

If we use an unresolvable namespace like:

  http://oasis-open.org/messageService

then it will be necessary to use xsi:schemaLocation to
identify the schema location.

Likewise, if we use the same namespace for different
versions of the schema (for example, when we have a
2.0 version), we will have to use xsi:schemaLocation to
specify the schema location.

Ian:

Can we schedule some time next week to discuss the
namespace issue at the F2F meeting?

In fact, Suresh suggests that the namespace issue
should be brought up to the OASIS ebXML JC.

Regards,
-Arvola

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>
Cc: ebXML Msg <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces


I had not seen Chris' comments but I agree with some of them.  He says:

"I think that using a sub-directory of the ebxml-msg and ebxml-cppa TC
team's respective URLs is as good a scheme as any for our respective
namespaces."

which is good.  I don't agree with making the namespace the same as the
schema.
We already have a versioning attribute and we don't need to do versioning
with
the namespace.  The namespace needs to remain constant and let the schema
name
change as needed.  Such a subdirectory would be one of:

  http://oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/
  http://oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/schema/

We should really use a different subdirectory for the schema and for
services,
with a common namespace root.  IMO, unresolvable url references, such as
.../NextMSH need to contain the namespace we designate to guarantee
uniqueness.
If we wanted to consolidate by using:

  http://oasis-open.org/messageService/schema/draft-msg-header-03.xsd
  http://oasis-open.org/messageService/nextMSH
  http://oasis-open.org/messageService/ToPartyMSH

then the namespace could be:

  http://oasis-open.org/messageService

or we could use the first namespace above and use:

  http://oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/messageServices

This subdirectory does not have to exist.

All these options mean significant change and I would prefer not to do any
of
them.  I view this as all jumbled now and I don't think it can be fixed.  My
preference is, at this point, to leave everything alone and just take the
schema
filename off the namespace.

Regards,

David Fischer
Drummond Group.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:32 PM
To: David Fischer
Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces


David:

>
>We should change the schema to point to a namespace of:
>
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/
>

Chris' earlier suggestion was to follow conventions adopted by the
OASIS Securtiy Services TC, and to have the namespace to be
identical to the schema location. Please see attached messages
(one from Chris and the other from me to Colleen).

Regards,
-Arvola

-----Original Message-----
From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>
Date: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces


>Arvola,
>
>I agree.  My problem with making all unresolvable parameters urn's is that
this
>will include NextMSH and ToPartyMSH which are values of SOAP:actor.  The
current
>SOAP:actor values are uri's(url's) and we should match as closely as
possible.
>If we follow SOAP, then we should be consistent on unresolvable parameters
in
>our spec so all should be uri's.  There is no particular benefit with this
>change and vendor's are already coding -- this will cause unnecessary
recoding.
>
>We should change the schema to point to a namespace of:
>
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/
>
>Actually, as I have said before, there is no value in the www. on the front
(but
>at this point this too would cause vendors to recode).
>
>- David
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:35 AM
>To: David Fischer
>Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>
>
>David:
>
>Maybe you should hold off on making any namespace changes
>until we have had a chance to discuss in front of the whole
>group next week.
>
>Regards,
>-Arvola
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
>To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:41 AM
>Subject: FW: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>
>
>>I am not yet understanding what needs to change.  What does this mean for:
>>
>> "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:errors"
>>
>>Maybe we should leave it the way it is in the spec for now.
>>
>>- David.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: christopher ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com]
>>Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:35 AM
>>To: David Fischer
>>Cc: Arvola Chan; ebXML Msg
>>Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>
>>
>>Sorry,
>>
>>Have been so busy that I haven't been paying enough attention to the list.
>>
>>As for the namespace URI's, I see no reason to change them. I would
>>much prefer that the namespace URI remain
http://oasis-open.org/yadda/yadda
>>The URN's were for the non-resolvable URIs we used for the MSH specific
>>services only (at least that is what I had intended to suggest).
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Chris
>>David Fischer wrote:
>>
>>> I think we need to step back and think about this.  I thought the
>namespace
>>> should be:
>>>
>>> http://oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/schemas/
>>>
>>> or maybe better:
>>>
>>> http://oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/
>>>
>>> These do not mandate a change throughout the document.  When I started
to
>>change
>>> from:
>>>
>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/nextMSH
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:nextMSH
>>> or urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:nextMSH      (which?)
>>>
>>> I thought maybe we need to discuss this (I haven't seen any discussion
on
>the
>>> list yet) and besides, there are developers already coding to the uri
>>> notation -- why change?
>>>
>>> I am not yet sure this switch to urn notation will work.  Maybe it will,
>but
>>> before we make a sweeping change from something that we know works,
let's
>>check.
>>> I am also reluctant since other specs (SOAP, dSig, XMLEncryption) don't
>do
>>> this -- they still use the url/uri notation and I think maybe we should
>stick
>>to
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Chris, why should we change to urn?  Why is uri inappropriate?  If it
is,
>why
>>do
>>> other specs still use uri?  I'm not saying this change is wrong, I would
>just
>>> like some more information before we dive in.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:51 AM
>>> To: David Fischer; ebXML Msg
>>> Cc: chris.ferris@sun.com
>>> Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>
>>>
>>> David:
>>>
>>> Yes, I need to update the schema to reflect the default value.
>>> Following Chris suggestion regarding namespace, I have
>>> set this default value to:
>>>
>>> "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:errors"
>>>
>>> I don't think it is proper to leave out the xml:lang attribute
>>> from the Error and Description elements. It is customary
>>> to allow an optional indication of the language used in
>>> textual descriptions. The CPP/A schema also makes
>>> use of the xml:lang attribute in the Comment element.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, the namespace
>>>
>>> "http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
>>>
>>> is predefined, but the attribute xml:lang is not. That is why
>>> we have to import the xml_lang.xsd (which we provide)
>>> into the above namespace. With the Extensibility XML
>>> Authority which I am using, I get errors parsing the
>>> MSG header schema if I omit the importing of xml_lang.xsd.
>>>
>>> Chris:
>>> Can you please comment on the necessity of the
>>> xml:lang attribute?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> -Arvola
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
>>> To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>; ebXML Msg
>>> <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>> Date: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:47 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Arvola,
>>>
>>> The spec says that codeContext has a default of:
>>>
>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/messageServiceErrors
>>>
>>> but I don't see that in the schema?
>>>
>>> Also:
>>> What about leaving the xml:lang attribute out of the schema since there
>>> seems to
>>> be widespread confusion and non-support?  Since this is supposed to be
>>> predefined, can the attribute be put on without having it in our schema?
>If
>>> not, what if we omit xml:lang from the spec?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> David Fischer
>>> Drummond Group.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:00 PM
>>> To: David Fischer; ebXML Msg
>>> Subject: Re: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>
>>>
>>> David:
>>>
>>> Sorry for the delayed response. I had the day off.
>>>
>>> The latest schema is attached. There are two changes from
>>> the previous version:
>>>
>>> 1. target namespace changed to
>>>         "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:xsd:1.1"
>>>
>>> 2. added
>>>     <any namespace="##other" processContents="lax"
>>>              minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
>>>     under MessageHeader.
>>>
>>> -Arvola
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
>>> To: Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>; ebXML Msg
>>> <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>> Date: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:01 AM
>>> Subject: RE: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>We're starting to run out of time so I am going to publish v1.08
tomorrow
>>>>evening.  Any more changes from anyone?
>>>>
>>>>Arvola, have you made any changes to the Schema that I need to include?
>>>>
>>> (please
>>>
>>>>send the whole schema).
>>>>
>>>>There are still outstanding issues about TraceHeaderList but I have not
>>>>corrected them in anticipation of its removal.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>David Fischer
>>>>Drummond Group
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
>>>>Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 11:37 AM
>>>>To: Christopher Ferris; ebXML Msg; ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>Cc: Nikola Stojanovic
>>>>Subject: [ebxml-cppa] Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chris:
>>>>
>>>>I notice in the latest registry.xsd
>>>>
>>>>http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/regrep/200111/msg00010.html
>>>>
>>>>the following declarations under the schema element:
>>>>
>>>> targetNamespace = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-regrep:registry:xsd:2.0"
>>>> xmlns:tns = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-regrep:registry:xsd:2.0"
>>>>
>>>>I suppose that the XSD's we use for MSG and CPP/A should similarly have:
>>>>
>>>> targetNamespace = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:xsd:1.1"
>>>> xmlns:tns = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:xsd:1.1"
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>> targetNamespace = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-cppa:cppa:xsd:1.1"
>>>> xmlns:tns = "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-cppa:cppa:xsd:1.1"
>>>>
>>>>respectively.
>>>>
>>>>I will continue to post the working drafts of the XSD's as
>>>>
>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/schema/draft-msg-header-<
N
>N>
>>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>>xsd
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-cppa/schema/draft-cpp-cpa-<NN
>
>.x
>>>>
>>> s
>>>
>>>>d
>>>>
>>>>The finalized versions will be posted as:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-msg/schema/msg-header-1_1.xsd
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-cppa/schema/cpp-cpa-1_1.xsd
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>-Arvola
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Christopher Ferris <chris.ferris@sun.com>
>>>>To: Nikola Stojanovic <nikola.stojanovic@encodasystems.com>; ebXML Msg
>>>><ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>; ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>><ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>>Date: Friday, November 02, 2001 8:03 AM
>>>>Subject: [ebxml-msg] Re: Fw: Namespaces
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>All,
>>>>
>>>>Please see the note from Nikola below. Apparently, OASIS
>>>>has got a URN namespace that we can use (woo hoo). We can,
>>>>and should (IMO) leverage this in our spec (and possibly
>>>>also in the CPP/A specs if appropriate.
>>>>
>>>>We are currently using a uri: scheme for some of our
>>>>URIs which (upon further investigation) is inappropriate.
>>>>I think that this may be my fault (sheepish grin).
>>>>
>>>>I would therefore like to recommend that we consider replacing
>>>>the "uri:www.ebxml.org/messageService" prefixed URIs in our
>>>>spec with "urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-msg:service:" as this URN
>>>>is a formally registered URN namespace.
>>>>
>>>>Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>Chris
>>>>
>>>>Nikola Stojanovic wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Nikola Stojanovic" <nikola.stojanovic@encodasystems.com>
>>>>>To: <regrep-raws@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:07 AM
>>>>>Subject: Namespaces
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>One of the outstanding items for this subteam was the resolution on
>>>>>namespaces. Here is what I'd like to suggest to the group to consider.
>>>>>
>>>>>One of the few registered formal URN Namespaces is "A URN Namespace for
>>>>>OASIS" (see [1]). It seems that its structure and semantics would be
>>>>>sufficient for our work. According to [1] ebXML namespaces would be
>under
>>>>>"names:tc:" hierarchy so they would start with urn:oasis:names:tc: A
>>>>>
>>>>unique
>>>>
>>>>>"tc-id" in our case, according to Karl Best, would be ebxml-regrep.
Then
>>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>rest of it might look like:
>>>>>
>>>>>urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-regrep:registry:xsd:1.1 - this would be a
>>>>>
>>>>Registry
>>>>
>>>>>schema
>>>>>urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-regrep:services:wsdl:1.7 - this would be a
>>>>>
>>>>Registry
>>>>
>>>>>Services WSDL
>>>>>urn:oasis:names:tc:ebxml-regrep:soapbinding:wsdl:1.8 - this would be a
>>>>>Registry Services WSDL SOAP binding
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[1]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>http://lists.research.netsol.com/pipermail/urn-nid/2001-January/000120.h
t
>ml
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Nikola Stojanovic
>>>>>Lead Technologist, Research and Development
>>>>>Encoda Systems Inc.
>>>>>101 Pineview Terrace
>>>>>Ithaca, NY 14850 USA
>>>>>nikola.stojanovic@encodasystems.com
>>>>>Tel: 607-273-2224
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>>>manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
>>> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>