RE: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting

[David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>]

Yes Chris, that's exactly what I said before.  The absence of AckRequested
implies *false*.

IMO, AckRequested should only appear IF CPA says *perMessage*.  Otherwise,
AckRequested should not appear at all -- use the CPA.

David.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:58 AM
To: David Fischer
Cc: Martin W Sachs; Arvola Chan; ebXML Msg
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting


It must ALWAYS be present when you WANT an acknowledgment.
Its absense implies that you don't want one.

Cheers,

Chris

David Fischer wrote:

> Marty, if AckRequested must always appear, then how do I send a message which
> DOES NOT request an Acknowledgment?
>
> David.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 7:50 AM
> To: David Fischer
> Cc: Arvola Chan; ebXML Msg
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting
>
>
>
> Some comments below, MWS:
>
>
********************************************************************************
> *****
>
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
>
********************************************************************************
> *****
>
>
>
> David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com> on 12/03/2001 09:43:28 PM
>
> To:    Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>, ebXML Msg
>        <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> cc:
> Subject:    RE: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting
>
>
>
> Arvola,
>
> If AckRequested is *true* in the CPA, then does the AckRequested element
> have to
> appear?  If it MUST appear, then why have it in the CPA?  I think the
> Receiving
> MSH must send an Acknowledgment in this case even if AckRequested does not
> appear.  Actually, I would prefer that AckRequested MUST NOT appear if the
> CPA
> says *true* or *false*.
>
> MWS:  I agree with the last statement.
>
> If AckRequested is *perMessage* in the CPA, then what happens if the
> AckRequested element does not appear?  The spec says this means no
> Acknowledgment.  The default then is *false* if the CPA says *perMessage*.
>
> MWS: This is a programming error.  The MSH should do nothing except forward
> an error indication upward to the middleware/software layer that cares
> about it.
>
> I think we should not have multiple rules about *perMessage*.  If a default
> is
> provided in one case, then it should work the same in all cases.  Since the
> absence of an Acknowledgment element means *false* then the absence of
> duplicateElimination should also mean *false* and the absence of a signed
> attribute should mean *false* (or in all cases it means take the default).
>
> MWS:  The MSH SHALL not guess.  There are valid defaults, such as
> specifying
> the value of Ackrequested in the CPA and omitting the element from the
> message.
> Defaults must not be used to paper over software errors.  That can cause
> untold
> harm at both ends.
>
> David.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:05 PM
> To: David Fischer; ebXML Msg
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting
>
>
> David:
>
> I don't agree with the last sentence in the following paragraph within your
> meeting minutes:
>
>
>>PerMessage parameters:  Colleen, what parameters have been identified.
>>
> Arvola:  >duplicateElimination, AckRequested, AckRequested/signed.  Dale:
> perMessage in >CPA means no agreement.  Colleen: what about defaults.
> Dale:
> OK.  Ian:  add to >document, if there is a conflict then generate error /
> define error ? <<next item>>.  >Consensus is that perMessage does not
> require item to appear, there may be an >MSH default.
>
> I have been assuming that the AckRequested element must be present in a
> message before the receiver will return an Acknowledgment. The Message
> Service Interface may have a default to allow the application above to omit
> the specification of whether an Acknowledgment is desired. The sending MSH
> must include an AckRequested element in a message if it expects to receipt
> an Acknowledgment for it.
>
> Similarly, the sending MSH must specify an appropriate value for the
> duplicateElimination attribute in the QualityOfServiceInfo element, one
> that
> does not conflict with the specification within the CPA.
>
> Regards,
> -Arvola
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
> To: ebXML Msg <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:51 PM
> Subject: [ebxml-msg] Minutes 12/03/01 - Voting Meeting
>
>
> These are the minutes from Monday's voting meeting.
>
> I thought we achieved consensus on the error code issue concerning
> NotSupported/Inconsistent but talking to some members afterwards, this is
> not
> clear.
>
> Does anyone object to changing the error code on Ping, Pong, MessageStatus,
> duplicateElimination and AckRequested to Inconsistent?  This means the only
> thing in the spec with NotSupported is MessageOrder.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Fischer
> Drummond Group
> ebXML-MS Editor.
>
>
>
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