Re: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async response?

[Arvola Chan <arvola@tibco.com>]

David:

The latest working draft of the CPP/A spec has the following enumerated
values for syncReplyMode:

- none
- mshSignalsOnly
- signalsOnly
- signalsAndRespose
- responseOnly

The modes signalsOnly, signalsAndResponse, and responseOnly would also
include the MSH level Acknowledgment if Reliable Messaging is in use.

> "If the syncReplyMode is not none, a SyncReply element MUST be present and
> the MSH must return any response from the application or business process
in
> the payload of the synchronous reply message, as appropriate."

To avoid changing the above statement in the spec, we will have to interpret
the phrase "as appropriate" to mean that it applies to the modes
signalsOnly, signalsAndResponse, and responseOnly. In the case of
mshSignalsOnly, no application level payload is to be included. Furthermore,
clarifications can be put in the CPP/A spec.

On the other hand, if we are going to discuss and accept some or all of the
changes proposed by Chris and Doug, I don't see why we cannot also include
some clarification on sync reply mode.

Regards,
-Arvola

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Fischer" <david@drummondgroup.com>
To: "Arvola Chan" <arvola@tibco.com>; "Cliff Collins" <collinsc@sybase.com>;
"Cherian Sanjay" <Sanjay_Cherian@stercomm.com>;
<ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
response?


> Arvola,
>
> This would fix the problem.  Would there then be 4 new enumerated values?
>
> None
> SignalsOnly
> ResponseOnly
> SignalsAndResponse
> mshSignalsOnly
> mshSignalsAndSignals
> mshSignalsAndResponse
> mshSignalsAndSignalsAndResponse
>
> Cliff is right that this implicitly changes the behavior of the MSH (at
least
> from a programmer's view) but can we avoid a change in the MS spec?
>
> David.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 7:26 PM
> To: Cliff Collins; Cherian Sanjay; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
> response?
>
>
> Cliff:
>
> The syncReplyMode value of "mshSignalsOnly" was agreed by the team during
> the conference call of 10/22/2001. See
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ebxml-msg/200110/msg00174.html.
>
> The sentence on lines 1632-1634 may cause some confusion:
>
> "If the syncReplyMode is not none, a SyncReply element MUST be present and
> the MSH must return any response from the application or business process
in
> the payload of the synchronous reply message, as appropriate."
>
> If syncReplyMode is mshSignalsOnly, response from the application or
> business process would not be contained in the synchronous reply message,
> only the MSH level Acknowledgment would be returned synchronously;
business
> signals and response have to be returned asynchronously.
>
> I agree with Ralph that this is a reasonable behaviour that should be
> configurable. We may need to rephrase the sentence on lines 1632-1634 to
> allow this to happen.
>
> -Arvola
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cliff Collins" <collinsc@sybase.com>
> To: "Arvola Chan" <arvola@tibco.com>; "Cherian Sanjay"
> <Sanjay_Cherian@stercomm.com>; <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
> response?
>
>
> > Doesn't this conflict with the MS 2.0 spec and indirectly change the
> > functionality of a MSH without the MS team voting on it?
> >
> > MS Lines 1632-1643 (section 7.4.7) would be in conflict with the CPA
> 1.1/2.0
> > and would need to change.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Arvola Chan [mailto:arvola@tibco.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:03 PM
> > > To: Cherian Sanjay; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org;
> > > ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
> > > response?
> > >
> > >
> > > Sanjay:
> > >
> > > The next version of the CPP/A spec (don't yet know whether it is
> > > going to be
> > > called 1.1 or 2.0, but due end of 2/2002) that the ebxml-cppa TC
> > > is working
> > > on will have an additional synchronous reply mode defined,
> > > "mshSignalsOnly".
> > > In that mode, the receiver is expected to return the Acknowledgment
> > > synchronously, and then any business level signal or response
> > > asynchronously.
> > >
> > > -Arvola
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cherian, Sanjay" <Sanjay_Cherian@stercomm.com>
> > > To: <ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:08 PM
> > > Subject: [ebxml-msg] Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
> > > response?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > The question is 'Can an MSH send a sync ack and then an async
> response?'
> > > >
> > > > Lines 1632-1643 (section 7.4.7) in ebMS v2.0 states:
> > > >
> > > > If the syncReplyMode parameter is not none, a SyncReply element MUST
> > > > be present and the MSH must return any response from the application
> or
> > > > business process in the payload of the synchronous reply message, as
> > > > appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > It would seem useful if the MSH could return the ack message
> > > synchronously,
> > > > close the HTTP connection and
> > > > then send the business signal and/or response asynchronously.  This
is
> > > > necessary if the business process is
> > > > long lived.  It also seems necessary for reliable messaging to work
> with
> > > > SyncReply set.
> > > >
> > > > I would greatly appreciate an answer.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks a lot in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sanjay J. Cherian
> > > > Sterling Commerce,
> > > > Irving, TX
> > > >
> > > >
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