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Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] issues list
- From: David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com>
- To: Christopher Ferris <chris.ferris@sun.com>
- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:10:41 -0600
Title:
Please be careful Chris, we
never voted on Ack/Errors. When I look in the minutes from November 14, I
find:
14.1 Issue 73. Alllowed
Acknowledegements/Errors. Error on
ack,
but not ack on error? Determined can’t ack on an ack, error on
error, or error on an ack. Wording already precludes asking
for
an
ack on a message that contains an ack (ignored). David F.
will revise the spec to this effect. Line 1517 (errors are never
sent reliably) must be fixed during this revision process.
We
discussed this and at that time made a determination, but there was no
vote. We continued to discuss this later and changed our (collective)
minds. I don't see why discussions at the F2F would take precedence
over email. Email tends to be more deliberate than the rushed decisions,
by fewer people, at the F2F. I will agree that we cannot overturn a vote
with an email discussion. Did I miss a vote somewhere?
On the current spec, I
would think we can fix obvious typos without even a revote (things like schema
to scheme) -- does anyone object? But, if we want to vote on the
typos I am willing to do that too. On the editorials, I would not have
been opposed to a few but I am opposed to the volume. However, if the
editorials are more than typos then we would definitely have to
revote. On technical issues, unless it is a real error (like
nonNegativeInteger instead of PositiveInteger) I would be opposed to any
functional changes at this time.
Yes, I too wish you had
gotten comments in earlier since your comments are usually good ones; but, after
all, we already extended the comment period by almost two months!
Regards,
David Fischer
Drummond Group
ebXML-MS
Editor.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:01 PM
To: David
Fischer
Cc: ebXML Msg
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] issues
list
David,
The TC voted on allowing an ack on a message
containing
error list[1]. You simply cannot overturn a TC vote with
an
email thread that continues to discuss the issue
without formal resolution
resulting in a TC vote to
overturn the previous decision.
The majority
of the issues cited are typographical and/or
editorial. While I suppose that
I'd be willing to overlook
the editorial changes (although I feel strongly
that they
would improve the document), the typographical errors should
be
addressed before we submit.
As to the techncial issues raised, regardless
of when the
email was sent, they remain real issues. Disregarding
them
simply because they were submitted after the supposed
deadline
doesn't make them go away. I think that we have an obligation
to
address them.
I am sorry that I took so long in getting my comments
submitted,
but I wanted to do a thorough review and that takes time.
Since
I was travelling the week of 1/7/02 I simply did not
have the necessary time
to complete the review.
The point I would have regarding these issues is:
had I submitted
them on or before 1/11/02, what would the TC have done with
them
then? The vote was on, and there were already a number of
ballots
cast against the document you submitted. The issues
would have been the
same.
Cheers,
Chris
[1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ebxml-msg/200111/msg00199.htmlDavid Fischer wrote:
>
Thanks Chris,
>
> I'm sorry, I have not responded to these comments
because they were
> submitted after the deadline.
>
> If you
feel that some of these comments were submitted prior to the
> deadline or
that some of my responses to previous comments were
> incorrect, then
please bring those to the attention of the group and we
> can vote on
them. My responses are only the opinion of the editor and
> do not
constitute a decision by the group. In many cases, I have tried
> to
resolve conflicting requests from numerous parties. If you feel
the
> resolution was not correct, then please bring it up.
>
>
One such case, which I see from your comments, is whether to have Acks
>
on Errors or Errors on Acks (but not both). Originally, the
decision
> was Errors on Acks, then you made your opinion known that you
preferred
> Acks on Errors (reliably sent Errors). As soon as I
changed the spec to
> reflect your opinion, several other members spoke
out against the change
> and put forward a substantial case for our
original decision -- Errors
> on Acks. Since you (nor Doug)
responded, I changed back to the original
> decision. I was
originally neutral on this issue, but I think I have
> become convinced
from the discussion on the list that Errors on Acks is
> correct. At
this point, it effectively takes a 2/3 vote to change
> anything, but
since this issue was definitely open prior to the
> deadline, perhaps we
should take it up yet again. Please read the
> attached
message.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Fischer
> Drummond
Group
> ebXML-MS Editor.
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@sun.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:36 PM
>
To: ebXML Msg
> Subject: [ebxml-msg] issues list
>
>
>
All,
>
> As mentioned on the call, I have tweaked the W3C XML
Protocol WG
> issues list for our needs, and have established as a
baseline the
> issues I raised with my vote on 2.0.
>
>
Attached are the XML, XSLT, DTD and HTML, all of which should be
> posted
to our website. We need to be sure that the DTD retains the
> W3C IP
disclaimer.
>
> Comments welcomed. I'll gladly make any necessary
changes
> to the schema or styling.
>
>
Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Subject:
>
> FW: [ebxml-msg] Ack on Error, or Error on Ack
>
From:
>
> "Cliff Collins" <collinsc@sybase.com>
>
Date:
>
> Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:30:22 -0600
>
To:
>
> "David Fischer"
<david@drummondgroup.com>
>
>
> Below is the last
message I sent on this issue. Others did a
> +1 but Chris
> never
replied since he was on vacation.
>
> Cliff
>
> PS. one
things I forgot to note in response to Chris'
> message was
that:
>
> Some message will request acks(receipts) that will be
used
> in situations
> that are not "once and only once" so there
would be no
> retry. Instead, this
> would result in no error
reported to the sender.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Cliff Collins [mailto:collinsc@sybase.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 10,
2001 2:19 PM
> To: Christopher Ferris
> Cc: ebXML Msg
>
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Ack on Error, or Error on
Ack
>
>
>
>>
>>I don't get error on ack at
all. If I receive an
>>acknowledgment message, and for whatever reason
cannot
>>process it (let's say it was mangled in
transit)
>>then I'll simply resend the original
message
>>until I get an ack, or until either the message's
TTL
>>expires or the retries have been exhausted at
which
>>time I'll notify the application that I have
not
>>received an acknowledgment confirming the
message's
>>receipt by the intended
recipient.
>>
>
> Acks can now also be used for
Non-repudiation of receipt.
> This means that if
> the ds:References
are not included or it is not signed and
> the CPA says it
> was
suppose to be than this is an ERROR of inconsistent.
> Waiting for
the
> retry doesn't solve the error.
>
>
>
>>As
for ack on error, why on earth cannot an error
>>be treated with all of
the same QoS as a normal
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