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Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] RE: [ebcore] AMQP and ebXML =?UTF-8?Q?messaging=3F?=

Good synopsis. 
That would certainly jive with SWIFT message needs - where their existing XML is overspecified - whereas the original SWIFT messages are highly compact but underspecified!  And of course banks love to have hardware messaging layers that only they have.  And when they talk about open standard - that means between banks!
I did find this - http://jira.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp0-9.xml?version=1
which makes an ebXML CPA look trivial!  Trawling through that though I see I could if pressed write some XSLT to output that control file format from a CPA... since most of the semantic and logic content would appear to be consistent with typical control parameters, or easily defaulted to obvious values.
I'm not sure about sweet spot for ebMS though - as certainly the UK NHS are sending very high message volumes per minute of common XML messages... so it probably is an example of the banks intentionally wanting to be different (again) and the cost is not an issue for them.
Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [ebxml-msg] RE: [ebcore] AMQP and ebXML messaging?
From: "Moberg Dale" <dmoberg@axway.com>
Date: Tue, August 12, 2008 2:07 pm
To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>,
Cc: <ebcore@lists.oasis-open.org>

I have encountered AMQP proponents and evangelists (!) several times over the last few years, and have heard a presentation on it from an original contributer.
Actually it seemed to me that AMQP was more concerned with supplementing ordinary internet protocols with message queues, as the acronym suggests.
For example, fixed length message headers were typically used partly out of concern with overflow attacks.
Binary representations were sometimes used instead of XML to avoid XML parser attacks. Etc.
So I would guess you could layer a SOAP infoset on top of AMQP if you wanted to. I really think that AMQP is maybe an alternative to FTP, SMTP and HTTP for business data exchange and is not very high up on the collaboration protocol layering.
If it is payload neutral, we can layer ebMS 3.0 payloads over it. I see no real reason to think AMQP is not neutral in this respect. If we wanted to we could work out the Transport details for AMQP and layer over it. Do you see any interest in that? My impression is that they were going for high performance on high volumes of short messages, which is not the normal sweet spot for the ebXML OASIS layers.
Dale Moberg
In researching TWIST I tripped over the related work on AMQP
The banking industry of course has a long history of inventing messaging that only they use.
However they claim interoperability with SOAP in this case - but when you look at their business objectives - it looks like they are re-inventing the ebMS wheel. 
So the question I have is - has anyone else looked at this AMQP stuff - and is it compatible with ebMS - particularly V3.0?  
Obviously if implementers can send ebMS exchanges across AMQP infrastructure seamlessly then this is less problematic.
Thanks, DW


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