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Subject: Re: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking
One of the attacks - can't remember the name of the virus - that targeted bank computers, specifically encrypted data (keystrokes) off of the machine and sent it out to various servers on the internet. The more recent GPcode also did this with a different purpose. So, the question now is, how do you prevent attackers from attacking the phone-home software and subverting it to their own purposes? Arshad Noor StrongAuth, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark@OISPP Weatherford" <Mark.Weatherford@OISPP.ca.gov> To: "Matthew Rosenquist" <matthew.rosenquist@intel.com>, "brian honan" <brian.honan@bhconsulting.ie>, "Brian Krebs" <Brian.Krebs@washingtonpost.com>, "Allen" <netsecurity@sound-by-design.com>, "Arshad Noor" <arshad.noor@strongauth.com> Cc: "security curmudgeon" <jericho@attrition.org>, dataloss@attrition.org, "ekmi" <ekmi@lists.oasis-open.org>, ST-ISC@MAIL.ABANET.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:31:39 AM (GMT-0800) America/Los_Angeles Subject: RE: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking All great comments and I believe the deterrent effect is probably the most important. Consider however, the privacy implications. Do you REALLY want your computer " anonymously sending encrypted notes about the computer’s whereabouts to servers on the Internet."? Where on the Internet? Who has access to those servers? Mark From: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org [mailto: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org ] On Behalf Of Rosenquist, Matthew Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:58 AM To: brian.honan@bhconsulting.ie ; 'Brian Krebs'; 'Allen'; 'Arshad Noor' Cc: 'security curmudgeon'; dataloss@attrition.org ; 'ekmi'; ST-ISC@MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: Re: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking We may be missing the bigger point, as security is both technical as well as behavioral. Yes, it is obvious this technology in its current state can easily be undermined by a determined attacker. But will it be a deterrence? Will it affect the casual laptop theft? Will it give pause to people buying questionable laptops at the flea markets or from shady vendors? Will it make laptops less attractive targets to thieves looking for any means of a quick buck? Can it effect the resale economy of such ‘hot’ merchandise? Will it give employees a second thought about swiping extra equipment for personal use? Maybe. This technology increases the risk of being caught. If so, it will have an overall positive benefit. We all know an effective security program does not need to provide real security. We have locks on our home doors which are a joke to anyone who has the intention of getting into your house. But it does help. It thwarts opportunistic attacks where the thief is looking for the path of least resistance to reach their goals. If your house is locked and the next house is not, then there is a good chance your neighbor will be the one victimized. I see this technology, which could be evolved into something great eventually, as similar to engraving laptops with “Property of XXX company” or something obviously not easily resold or used in the open. It is a deterrent and lowers the target-attractiveness factor. I don’t have any data handy, but last I read, most laptops are not stolen for their data. Rather it is a hardware itself which is valued. Matthew Rosenquist Security Strategist Intel Corporation Matthew.Rosenquist@Intel.com (916) 356-4882 From: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org [mailto: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org ] On Behalf Of Brian Honan Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:56 AM To: 'Brian Krebs'; 'Allen'; 'Arshad Noor' Cc: 'security curmudgeon'; ST-ISC@MAIL.ABANET.ORG ; 'ekmi'; dataloss@attrition.org Subject: Re: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking Brian As has been pointed out this type of technology does nothing to protect your data and provides some recourse to recover the physical device if and when it connects to the Internet. Indeed in some countries you may have to carefully consider the legal and privacy implications of using such technology. The Data Privacy laws in some European countries may restrict the use of such technology - this is something that I have yet to research into further though. In a similar vein some police forces may not be able to act on the information you provide to them. The most useful application I have seen for this type of technology is recovering computers stolen by employees. I know of one company that installed similar technology onto laptops given out to employees and as a result saw the number of "lost laptops" reduce. They discovered that staff were reporting their laptop had been stolen or lost but in actual fact were keeping the laptop for their own use. Of course this measure may only be effective until employees realise how the company is tracking their laptops and simply follow some of the steps outlined in an earlier email to remove the software from it. Regards Brian BH Consulting From: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org [mailto: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org ] On Behalf Of Brian Krebs Sent: 17 July 2008 04:18 To: Allen; Arshad Noor Cc: security curmudgeon; dataloss@attrition.org ; ekmi; ST-ISC@MAIL.ABANET.ORG Subject: Re: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking My big question is, assuming for a minute you can actually zero in on the person who stole your machine (what about crowded living areas, like apartment buildings), what is the likelihood you'll be able to get the police to knock on someone's door with that evidence? Doesn't seem all that bloodly likely to me. Seems like it increases the chance that people running this software will confront the thief on their own and possibly put themselves in a very compromising situation. Brian Krebs www.washingtonpost.com/securityfix 703-469-3162 (w) 703-989-0727 (c) From: dataloss-bounces@attrition.org on behalf of Allen Sent: Wed 7/16/2008 11:01 PM To: Arshad Noor Cc: security curmudgeon; ST-ISC@MAIL.ABANET.ORG ; ekmi; dataloss@attrition.org Subject: Re: [Dataloss] [ekmi] Re: fringe: Open source laptop tracking Arshad, I don't think you analysis, which I agree with, goes far enough. 1) Steal laptop. 2) Remove battery. 3) Remove HD. 4) Use HD cloning software such as Apricorn - hardware and software only $40 - and clone to any HD that is laying about 5) Mount clone as USB attached to a desktop 6) Attach old HD as USB attached and wipe old HD with DBAN or similar tool 7) Use Aloha Bob or equivalent to selectively migrate OS and basic productivity software such as Office from clone. 8) Remount HD in laptop 9) Sell the sucker. Best, Allen Arshad Noor wrote: > Am I the only one who believes that an attacker (who is after > the data) with half-a-brain is going to make sure that the first > time they boot up a stolen laptop, they're NOT going to put it on > the internet, and they're going to disable any radio for wireless > communications. (Laptop companies have to provide an external > radio switch I imagine so that there is confirmation of the radio > being OFF inside an airplane - I'm not sure how the iPhone gets > away with a software switch since we all know software can be > buggy and the radio may not go off despite a visible indication > that it is off - but that's another discussion. > > Alternatively, the attacker could boot off of a Linux CD and then > copy the entire hard-disk contents (or what was most interesting) > and then blow away everything on the hard-disk to reclaim the HW. > > In both cases, they have the HW and the data without anything > "calling home" to give away GPS positions or IP addresses of the > machine. So, why do people think that this is an effective > counter-measure against data-theft? How long do they anticipate > this to work? And with which type of attacker? I've read examples > of attacks that go beyond anything most IT developers - or even > security developers - are capable of in the marketplace today , so > who is this expected to deter? The guy who broke into your car > to get the hub-caps and radio, but got the laptop instead? > > Very puzzled..... > > Arshad Noor > StrongAuth, Inc. > > security curmudgeon wrote: >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah" < rMslade@shaw.ca > >> >> I know some people who are going to be really upset by this, but >> personally, I'm delighted: >> >> Researchers at the University of Washington and the University of >> California, San Diego, launched a new laptop tracking service, called >> Adeona, that is free and private. Once downloaded onto a laptop, the >> software starts anonymously sending encrypted notes about the >> computer’s whereabouts to servers on the Internet. If the laptop ever >> goes missing, the user downloads another program, enters a username >> and password, and then picks up this information from the servers, a >> free storage service called OpenDHT. (The Mac version of Adeona even >> uses a freeware program called isightcapture to take a snapshot of >> whomever is using the computer.) Adeona provides the IP address that >> it last used as well as data on nearby routers. Armed with that >> information, law enforcement could track down the criminal. Because >> Adeona ships with an open-source license, anyone can take the code and >> improve it or even sell it. The researchers say they’re hoping that >> software developers will build all kinds of new features such as >> Global Positioning System-aware tracking systems for new platforms >> such as the iPhone. Later this month, the Adeona team will give a >> technical presentation at the Usenix Security Symposium in San Jose. >> >> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=security&articleId=9110128&taxonomyId=17&intsrc=kc_top >> >> >> http://adeona.cs.washington.edu/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > _______________________________________________ Dataloss Mailing List ( dataloss@attrition.org ) http://attrition.org/dataloss Tenable Network Security offers data leakage and compliance monitoring solutions for large and small networks. Scan your network and monitor your traffic to find the data needing protection before it leaks out! http://www.tenablesecurity.com/products/compliance.shtml
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