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Subject: Re: [ekmi] Discussion on comment received on 15-day review of SKSML


Hi Arshad,
I agree that we should move on with v1 of the protocol. We should maintain a list of items that will be studied for v2.

Regards,
Tomas


Arshad Noor <arshad.noor@strongauth.com> wrote:

>Hi Tomas (Sandy and Ben),
>
>Thanks for your thoughts.
>
>I don't have anything (yet) against considering the merger of the
>DSKPP key-container into SKSML - I just think that we should study
>it before deciding on it.
>
>EKMI TC, the KEYPROV WG and the IEEE 1619.3 WG all had unique
>charters 2 years ago, so everybody was comfortable that there was
>no overlap.
>
>Since then, it appears that the IEEE and the KEYPROV WGs have carved
>some part of the EKMI TC focus into their charter, causing the overlap;
>we've still stayed true to our focus and mission for the last 2 years.
>
>Now that we're at the threshold of voting it to Committee Spec status,
>I would hate to have 2-years worth of work delayed for a few more
>months just so we can determine if the DSKPP key-container fits in
>within SKSML.  (I also recall that there was consensus in the last TC
>meeting that we would not add any new features to SKSML 1.0 after the
>asynch-request/encryption-cert support, as it was leading to scope-
>creep).
>
>Vendors need to start building implementations of SKSML so they can 
>learn about its own implementation issues.  However, they need a stable
>spec for that; if we keep changing the protocol every 2-3 months without
>putting a stake in the ground, we'll never finish SKSML.
>
>I think we can study the DSKPP key-container and create some vendor
>implementations of the Committee Spec concurrently without sacrificing
>anything.  The SKSML implementation experience may cause us to fine-tune
>our own protocol and by then we will also know how well the DSKPP key-
>container fits in with SKSML.  Sometime in spring, we can then vote on
>how to move forward with the standards vote and the DSKPP.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Arshad
>
>Tomas Gustavsson wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I didn't study the pskc document in detail now, only went over it 
>> briefly. It seems quite, perhaps overly, complex.
>> 
>> In general the idea of standardizing key container is good. If it were 
>> PKI we were talking about I would be suspicious of any new protocol that 
>> did not allow piggy-backing of existing standard messages such as 
>> pkcs#10 requests and pkcs#12 keystores.
>> 
>> The pskc seems to be simply such a standardized keystore, similar to 
>> pkcs#12 but for symmetric keys. If it is as Philip says that there are 
>> already wide-spread implementation of this keystore type, I think it 
>> would be beneficial for ekmi to support this.
>> 
>> Regarding your point 5 Arshad, I think this would be the benefit of 
>> supporting pskc, easing integration with existing implementations that 
>> already use pskc containers AFTER the delivery of the key by the SKS. 
>> Being able to "EKMI-ify" existing systems.
>> 
>> This is one of the areas where I think for example XKMS failed. It did 
>> not acknowledge the vast installed base of implementations using pkcs#10 
>> but required implementing something completely new, making it impossible 
>> to easy "XKMS-ify" existing systems.
>> 
>> Happy new year to all,
>> Tomas
>> 
>> Arshad Noor wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Many people are probably still on vacation and enjoying the holidays
>>> with their families/loved ones, but I thought that it would be useful
>>> to start the discussion on the comment received from Philip Hoyer on
>>> the 15-day review of SKSML that concluded last week:
>>>
>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ekmi-comment/200812/msg00000.html
>>>
>>> Here are my thoughts (in no particular order of importance):
>>>
>>> 1) We have not received any objections or concerns with the current
>>>    definition of the SKSML protocol itself;
>>>
>>> 2) Harmonizing key-management standards are good for the industry and
>>>    for customers; those amongst us at the Key Management Summit held
>>>    in Baltimore in September 2008 heard this very clearly from the
>>>    customers that attended the summit;
>>>
>>> 3) The IETF key-management effort has always been focused on symmetric
>>>    authentication keys, which is a very different objective than what
>>>    the EKMI TC is focused on.  This was discussed even before the TC
>>>    came into existence:
>>>
>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oasis-charter-discuss/200611/msg00003.html 
>>>
>>>
>>>    Since it was agreed that there was no overlap between KEYPROV and
>>>    EKMI TC (other than that both groups used symmetric cryptographic
>>>    keys to achieve their different objectives), the OASIS TC was
>>>    allowed to be created.
>>>
>>> 4) The key-container is an integral part of the SKSML protocol, but
>>>    not the most critical part of the protocol.  The truly critical
>>>    element is the KeyUsePolicy element, since this is what defines
>>>    policy and establishes control.  Without the KUP, there is no
>>>    key-management system;
>>>
>>> 5) The key-container in SKSML is tied to the use of XML Encryption
>>>    and X509 digital certificates for transporting the key; this not
>>>    only provides us the transport security, but also ties it to the
>>>    authentication credential of the client (also an X509 digital
>>>    certificate).  Without having studied the KEYPROV protocol, I am
>>>    not certain what additional benefits SKSML will gain by allowing
>>>    for different key-containers to carry the key.  At a minimum, it
>>>    will require studying the impact on the security and assumptions
>>>    we need to make about the requesting client;
>>>
>>> 6) We are at the point of only voting on a Committee Specification,
>>>    not an OASIS standard.  The next 3-6 months will be spent in
>>>    creating implementations to validate our choices and learn from
>>>    the experience before voting on the standard.
>>>
>>> I would recommend that, given the effort we have put in over the
>>> last two years, we continue with making the current spec a Committee
>>> Specification to validate our work through implementations.  At the
>>> same time, I also recommend that one or more TC members engage in
>>> discussions with Philip to understand the details and implications
>>> of his suggestion.  The engaging-member(s) can then report back to
>>> the TC with an analysis on what impact this suggestion has on SKSML
>>> and his/her/their recommendation.  The analysis can occur concurrently
>>> with the implementation validation so we will have a fair amount of
>>> information before deciding on what to do before going for an OASIS
>>> standards vote.
>>>
>>> Let me know what others think about this.
>>>
>>> Arshad Noor
>>> StrongAuth, Inc.
>>>
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