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Subject: RE: Question about CAP
My pleasure, Norm, These are important issues, so I am passing it along to the appropriate working group, so disregard any bounces from your replies to me. Cheers, Rex At 3:43 PM -0400 3/14/08, Paulsen,Norm [Ontario] wrote: >Thanks, they do frustrate.... > >No more questions, just a few comments. > >The specifications use an example that is during daylight time and is >for the Pacific Time Zone (Art's own time zone). This offset is -07:00 >which would indicate that it does reflect the local time (daylight >adjusted) as PDT is 7 hours off in the summer and PST is 8 hours off in >the winter from UTC. This I read as contrary to your answer below where >I could just take the value -4 and lookup the time zone. > >Unless I know the location and time zone particulars of the CAP >originating location though its useless to me as I would have to >maintain lookup tables for all originating sources and keep them current >over time which is just a lot of unnecessary overhead that I wouldn't >want to deal with. With your way (I assume you mean -08 to mean Pacific >time zone regardless of time of year) I can just look it up. In truth I >prefer your way. > >The US is working with UTC in the <expires> and <effective> tags by just >not using the offset in those fields. I tend to agree that is the only >way to be safe and let the end recipient adjust for local time. > >I appreciate your time and answers. Maybe these questions can be brought >up within the CAP working group. > >Thanks for listening. > >Norm > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >Sent: March 14, 2008 3:12 PM >To: Paulsen,Norm [Ontario]; emergency-gis@lists.oasis-open.org >Subject: RE: Question about CAP > >Hi Norm, > >I'm sorry if my answer frustrates, but the specification at stage 1.1 >doesn't say anything directly on these specific issues. I have to use >what the specification actually says and apply it as best I can. I'm >sorry I can't give you an authoritative answer. > >My best advice at this point is to take the <sent> dateTime value for >the CAP MessageID and consider it as defining the Time Zone of the >issuing agency/office. > >In regard to case you cite for an <effective> dateTime before a time >change and an <expires> afterward, these values are defined only for the ><area> associated with the <info> element, so you should be able to >look up the Time Zone based on the <area>. This is not dependent on the >location of the CAP issuing office. > >I'm doing my best to answer your questions. I apologize, if that's >insufficient. > >Cheers, >Rex > > > >>THANKS >> >>FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS WHICH ARE MORE TO MY ISSUE >> >>1) REGARDLESS OF TIME OF YEAR ... IS <sent> THE CURRENT LOCAL TIME? >>...OR IS IT LOCAL STANDARD TIME? >> >>2) The <effective> and <expires> TAGS ARE FORMATTED THE SAME AS <sent> >>SO IF THE <effective> TIME IS BEFORE THE DAYLIGHT TIME CHANGE AND THE >><expires> IS AFTER TIME CHANGE IS THE RECIPIENT EXPECTED TO KNOW THIS >>AND SEE THIS REFLECTED IN THE TAG VALUE? >> >>3) WHAT'S THE POINT OF KNOWING THE LOCAL TIME OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE > >>IF THE LOCATION OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE IS NOT KNOWN. I DON'T SEE A >>TAG THAT GIVES THAT INFO SO WHAT'S THE POINT OF KNOWING THE LOCAL TIME >>OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE? >> >>NORM >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >>Sent: March 14, 2008 12:18 PM >>To: Paulsen,Norm [Ontario]; Rex Brooks >>Cc: Elysa Jones >>Subject: RE: Question about CAP >> >>Hi Norm, Elysa, >> >>I was afraid this might be the issue. NOAA-NWS is slightly >>non-conformant, so you would have to ask them about the details of >>their implementation. The dateTime for <sent> SHOULD be for the >>location of the sender at the time the message was issued and >>identified by the MessageID. That would, most likely, be for the >>CAP-issuing office location as you infer. >> >> >> >> >>However, when the message is issued by NOAA, I believe, though I could > >be wrong, that the <sent> dateTime is for the NOAA-NWS HQ through which > >>alert messages are issued. That would account for the same offset in > >California and New York. >> >>You are correct. The <alert> <sent> dateTime is for the message, not >>for the <area> associated with the <info> which contains the Onset >>Date/Time >>(onset) and Effective Date/Time (effective) directly related to the >>incident/event. >> >>I hope that helps. >> >>Cheers, >>Rex >> >> >>At 11:20 AM -0400 3/14/08, Paulsen,Norm [Ontario] wrote: >>>Rex >>> >>>Thanks for the response and the offer to help.... >>> >>>It is the <sent> tag in the <alert> block.. >>> >>>Couple of U.S. examples below... >>> >>><alert> >>> <identifier> >>> NOAA-NWS-ALERTS California 2008-03-13T10:37:44-04:00 >>> </identifier> >>> <sender>w-nws.webmaster@noaa.gov</sender> >>> <sent>2008-03-13T10:37:44-04:00</sent> >>> <status>Actual</status> >>> <msgType>Alert</msgType> >>> <scope>Public</scope> >>> <note> >>> Current Watches, Warnings and Advisories for California >>Issued by the >>>National Weather Service >>> </note> >>> <references> >>> http://www.weather.gov/alerts/ca.html >>> </references> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>></alert> >>> >>>And the same for New York State: >>> >>><alert> >>> <identifier> >>> NOAA-NWS-ALERTS New York 2008-03-13T10:42:25-04:00 >>> </identifier> >>> <sender>w-nws.webmaster@noaa.gov</sender> >>> <sent>2008-03-13T10:42:25-04:00</sent> >>> <status>Actual</status> >>> <msgType>Alert</msgType> >>> <scope>Public</scope> >>> <note> >>> Current Watches, Warnings and Advisories for New York Issued by >>the >>>National Weather Service >>> </note> >>> <references> >>> http://www.weather.gov/alerts/ny.html >>> </references> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>> <info> .... </info> >>></alert> >>> >>>Both have -04:00 as the time zone modifier. The <identifier> tag notes >> >California for one alert and New York for the other alert. >>> >>>Since they are both -04:00, I assume the <sent> tag is referring to >>>the >> >>>time it was in the location of the office where the CAP alert was >>>generated regardless of where the hazard was for. Looks like an >>>Eastern >> >>>time zone based on -04. >>> >>>If true, to know if -04:00 is EDT (Eastern Daylight)or AST (Atlantic >>>Standard) I would need to know the location of the CAP issuing office. >>>The CAP standard document uses a Daylight example so it appears its >>>not >> >>>just a local standard time offset, but assuming I even have a need to >>>know the time at the location of the issuing office how would I know >>>which one it is? >>> >>>Is there a place to tag the location and timezone of the issuing >>>office >> >>>without having to resort to a local lookup table? A lookup table would > >>>require maintenance which could more easily be done with a tag for >>>this >> >>>info. >>> >>>In the end, daylight or not, UTC can be properly calculated but if >>>someone in California were to disseminate it locally, they would have >>>to work from <sent> to UTC to Pacific time or use what is later found >>>in the <description> tag??? >>> >>>If this is how its meant to be, what's the point? If I need to know >>>the >> >>>local time at the issuing office then I would need to know the time >>>zone of the issuing office so as to properly process this information. >>> >>>However, if I don't need to know (and I haven't a reason figured out >>>yet why I would), why not just put UTC time in the <sent> tag. >>> >>>Thanks >>>Norm >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >>>Sent: March 14, 2008 10:54 AM >>>To: Elysa Jones; Rex Brooks >>>Cc: Paulsen,Norm [Ontario] >>>Subject: Re: Question about CAP >>> >>>Hi Norm, >>> >>>I would be happy to answer your question. However, I'm not sure what >>>is >> >>>referred to by "offset value" and to which element is applied. I did a > >>>quick search of the document and neither 'offset' nor 'offset value' >>>occurs in the document, so I am assuming that you are referring to a >>>specific implementation issue, so if you could clarify that for me, I >>>will do my best to answer. >>> >>>Cheers, > >>Rex >>> >>>At 8:39 AM -0500 3/14/08, Elysa Jones wrote: >>>>Rex, >>>> >>>>Meet Norm Paulsen of Environment Canada. We were on a call today > >>>with Norm's organization and OASIS staff. They are interested in >>>>joining us to participate with the CAP usage issues, as well as other > >>>>EDXL standards. >>>> >>>>He has an immediate question about the CAP Element Tag wrt the offset > >>>>value and why it is determined as it is. He is working an issue >>>>right >> >>>>now and I thought you would be best able to give him an answer. >>>>Please >>> >>>>get in touch with Norm if you can. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Elysa >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Rex Brooks >>>President, CEO >>>Starbourne Communications Design >>>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >>>Berkeley, CA 94702 >>>Tel: 510-898-0670 >> >> >>-- >>Rex Brooks >>President, CEO >>Starbourne Communications Design >>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >>Berkeley, CA 94702 >>Tel: 510-898-0670 > > >-- >Rex Brooks >President, CEO >Starbourne Communications Design >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >Berkeley, CA 94702 >Tel: 510-898-0670 -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
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