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Subject: Re: [emergency] Unique Message Identifiers in CAP


At 9:44 AM -0500 3/27/04, R. Allen Wyke wrote:
>>With equal respect, I'm not sure we all know enough about each 
>>others' experiences for any of us to claim superior standing on 
>>that basis.
>
>As well you shouldn't, which is what prompted the need for me to 
>make the statement.

Um... actually I was talking about your implication that only you 
(and perhaps a few of your buddies) have ever built systems to 
standards before.  Many others of us have, many times over many 
years, and I really think the members of this TC deserve more respect 
and less personal agenda from their Chair.

- Art



At 9:44 AM -0500 3/27/04, R. Allen Wyke wrote:
>On Mar 26, 2004, at 6:48 PM, Art Botterell wrote:
>
>>At 4:59 PM -0500 3/26/04, R. Allen Wyke wrote:
>>>With all due respect, there is a dimension to building systems 
>>>that support standards, and therefore building standards that can 
>>>be supported, that not everyone has experience with nor are they 
>>>expected to.
>>
>>With equal respect, I'm not sure we all know enough about each 
>>others' experiences for any of us to claim superior standing on 
>>that basis.
>
>As well you shouldn't, which is what prompted the need for me to 
>make the statement.
>
>>>An interface is built, however it is impossible to connect with 
>>>other systems in a standard (official) way as that means of 
>>>connection has not been defined.
>>
>>Well, as mentioned earlier, isn't that really an Infrastructure issue?
>
>It is an issue that the IF SC has been assigned to provide 
>information back on, which that have done to some degree. It is 
>certainly, as I think you are implying, time to take next steps with 
>that now that CAP 1.0 is finished from a content standpoint.
>
>>Anyway, seems like DMIS is fairly "official"... unless what we 
>>really mean by that is "our own"... and quite a number of folks 
>>have managed to connect successfully to that.  Have you tried it?
>
>That is not the issue. Do not confuse "official", as in something 
>built by someone, with something that has been through the OASIS 
>process via the EM TC. DMIS, as it pertains to the EM TC, is not 
>official.
>
>>>  Your ethical responsibility as a standards developer is to put a 
>>>usable standard out there for people to implement, and then seek 
>>>to improve it.
>>
>>Guess I'm not clear on what your criterion for "usable" is.  A 
>>number of folks are using the CAP format right now... several of 
>>them daily and in significant volume.
>
>I am, in as simply a way as I know how to say, referring to two 
>completely different systems who did NOT have offline conversations 
>being able to exchange CAP alerts. An analogy would be point to 
>supporting HTML (author/user agent).
>
>>Again, I think what you're talking about isn't the CAP messaging 
>>format but some other Infrastructure standard that we've yet to 
>>devise.  Perhaps eventually it could all be rolled together into 
>>something that came closer to your preferred definition of 
>>"protocol",
>
>Yes, that is what I am saying. If you want to call it an 
>Infrastructure standard, or whatever, that is fine. As I have stated 
>before, how this situation manifests itself into a normative and 
>actionable state in terms of a standard can vary, but right now I 
>consider that secondary to acknowledging and continuing to work 
>on/discuss the technical details.
>
>>but we'll have to get the missing bits before that becomes an option.
>
>Not sure what you mean by this - "missing bits." Just look at the 
>DMIS implementation that people connected to. Talk all the 
>discussions that happened, what was the technical result of those 
>discussions, plus all the lessons learned and you have a great start 
>on turing this into something official, which takes care of my 
>issues as well as others who have expressed them.
>
>>- Art
>>
>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the 
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