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Subject: RE: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity, Subjectivity and Interpretation.


I checked my documents as I didn't realize that the older version was
also called OASIS Where (it just says OASIS GML Profile in the doc). It
seems like we have an OASIS GML Profile circa 2006 and a forthcoming
OASIS Where GML Profile circa 2010. It is the advanced features in the
2010 Where Profile that I was worried will not be finished in time to be
put into next Wednesdays draft DE 2.0 Schema.

-hans

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Reed [mailto:creed@opengeospatial.org] 
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:19 PM
To: McGarry, Donald P.; Hans Jespersen; rexb@starbourne.com
Cc: TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity,
Subjectivity and Interpretation.

Hans -

Actually, there is. There is a slightly dated version that is referenced
by 
CIQ and a couple of other OASIS standards. This schema will be the basis
for 
the expanded version. The original where schema was defined and checked
by 
OGC GML gurus. We will extend this schema to handle the additional
geometry 
types as identified in the draft requirements document.

Cheers

Carl

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "McGarry, Donald P." <dmcgarry@mitre.org>
To: <Hans.Jespersen@SolaceSystems.com>; <rexb@starbourne.com>; 
<creed@opengeospatial.org>
Cc: <TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com>; <emergency@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity, 
Subjectivity and Interpretation.


>I was under the impression that the gml profile that was used in have
and 
>rm was geo oasis where...
> Don McGarry
> The MITRE Corp.
> dmcgarry@mitre.org
> (315) 838-2669 Office
> (703) 595-9375 Cell
> Sent via Blackberry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans Jespersen <Hans.Jespersen@SolaceSystems.com>
> To: McGarry, Donald P.; rexb@starbourne.com <rexb@starbourne.com>;
Carl 
> Reed <creed@opengeospatial.org>
> Cc: Gilmore, Timothy <TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com>; 
> emergency@lists.oasis-open.org <emergency@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thu Jun 24 20:48:27 2010
> Subject: RE: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity, 
> Subjectivity and Interpretation.
>
> I agree but if we want a sample schema by next Wednesday for EDXL DE
2.0
> I think we may be out of luck as the OASIS Where profile is not yet at
> the point of producing angle brackets.
>
> -hans
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McGarry, Donald P. [mailto:dmcgarry@mitre.org]
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:06 AM
> To: rexb@starbourne.com; Carl Reed
> Cc: Gilmore, Timothy; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity,
> Subjectivity and Interpretation.
>
> So this is on the list.  I was planning to advocate moving to our
> GeoOASIS where GML profile for targetarea geographic objects.
>
> -Don
> Office: 315-838-2669
> Cell: 703-595-9375
> dmcgarry@mitre.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:03 PM
> To: Carl Reed
> Cc: McGarry, Donald P.; Gilmore, Timothy;
emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity,
> Subjectivity and Interpretation.
>
> I concur.
>
> Cheers,
> Rex
>
> Carl Reed wrote:
>> Not to stir the pot, but if nay (minor) changes are made to the
>> definition of the circle element, would be nice to at least structure
>> the content to be consistent with the PIDF-LO definition so that CAP
>> and EDXL 2.0s are aligned with NENA Next Generation 911 specification
>> of the use the Location Object.
>> To whit:
>>
>> The circular area is used for coordinates in two-dimensional CRSs to
>> describe uncertainty about a point. The definition is based on the
>> one-dimensional geometry in GML, gml:CircleByCenterPoint.
>>
>> The centre point of a circular area shall be specified using a two
>> dimensional CRS; in three dimensions, the orientation of the circle
>> cannot be specified correctly using this representation. A point with
>> uncertainty that is specified in three dimensions SHOULD use the
>> Sphere shape type.
>>
>>   <gs:Circle srsName="urn:ogc:def:crs:EPSG::4326"
>>       xmlns:gs="http://www.opengis.net/pidflo/1.0";
>>       xmlns:gml="http://www.opengis.net/gml";>
>>     <gml:pos>
>>       42.5463 -73.2512
>>     </gml:pos>
>>     <gml:radius uom="urn:ogc:def:uom:EPSG::9001">
>>       850.24
>>     </gml:radius>
>>   </gs:Circle>
>> The only change I would recommend would be to use an http URI for the
>> CRS and uom definitions. Anyway, please note the lat-long order and
>> the use of white space. GML uses white space.
>> Also, FYI, this schema snippet for circle is almost identical to what
>> the schema will look like in the GML OASIS where document.
>> Cheers
>> Carl
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* McGarry, Donald P. <mailto:dmcgarry@mitre.org>
>>     *To:* Gilmore, Timothy <mailto:TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com> ;
>>     emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
>>     <mailto:emergency@lists.oasis-open.org>
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 3:54 AM
>>     *Subject:* [emergency] RE: EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity,
>>     Subjectivity and Interpretation.
>>
>>     Tim-
>>
>>     I wholeheartedly agree!
>>
>>     I did bring this up for discussion earlier and we agreed that a
>>     circle /should/ be
>>
>>     <circle>lat','lon<space>radius</circle>
>>
>>     Which makes comment 1 and the example wrong (extra space in both
>>     between the lat and lon).
>>
>>     This is on the issues list for 2.0. I will add the point about
the
>>     radius, because as stated it should be an *unsigned* integer with
>>     a maximum value less than that of a normal signed or unsigned
int.
>>
>>     Are you suggesting that we use different wording for the
OPTIONAL,
>>     MAY use multiple? That was a little confusing to me at first, so
>>     input would be appreciated.
>>
>>     I have added these topics to the issues list
>>
>>     -Don
>>
>>     Office: 315-838-2669
>>
>>     Cell: 703-595-9375
>>
>>     dmcgarry@mitre.org <mailto:dmcgarry@mitre.org>
>>
>>     *From:* Gilmore, Timothy [mailto:TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com]
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:24 AM
>>     *To:* emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
>>     *Subject:* [emergency] EDXL-DE 2.0 for the F2F - Objectivity,
>>     Subjectivity and Interpretation.
>>
>>     All,
>>
>>     Some of the things we look at are objectivity and subjectivity
due
>>     to our accreditation under the American Association for
Laboratory
>>     Accreditation (A2LA) for NIMS STEP and IPAWS Conformity
Assessment
>>     (CA) testing. Many elements under the OASIS EDXL suite of
>>     standards including CAP use words such as "SHOULD" and "MAY"
which
>>     are clearly subjective in nature. One of our engineers pointed
out
>>     some issues that we should keep in mind when going over the
>>     EDXL-DE 2.0 document during the F2F.
>>
>>     For CAP:
>>
>>     /What we're looking for are rules or constraints that are open to
>>     interpretation, or not fully specified, rather than being
>>     completely "nailed down."/
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /For example, consider the <circle> element. Is the following a
>>     "correct" <circle> element?/
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     / <circle> 0, 0, 150000000 </circle>/
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /It certainly fits the descriptions in that element's comments:
>>     (1) it's in the form "latitude, longitude, radius"; (2) the
>>     central point conforms to WSG84; (3) the radius value is
expressed
>>     in kilometers; and/
>>
>>     /(4) it is a properly escaped XML string./
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /Then again, the radius of the circle is approximately the
>>     distance between the Earth and the Sun. Note that the given
>>     definition includes the word "geographic" (twice!) and that the
>>     center of the circle is specified as longitude and latitude, all
>>     of which indicates to me that the circle ought be to Earth-bound.
>>     Someone else may interpret the standard differently, and the
>>     standard doesn't put a real limit on the radius of the circle./
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /The point is that the standard doesn't really specify enough for
>>     a tester to determine whether or not a <circle> element is
>>     conforming./
>>
>>     /The tester has to make up his (or her!) own rules to complete
the
>>     test./
>>
>>     /Multiple testers will certainly come to different conclusions,
>>     and all will be correct to within the subjectivity allowed by the
>>     standard./
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /(And that all said, note that the given example doesn't match
the
>>     form given in comment 1; the comma between the longitude and the
>>     radius is missing. Since all of section 3 of this standard is
>>     normative, this is a bug in this standard.)/
>>
>>     / /
>>
>>     /For another example, consider the <senderRole> element. The
>>     standard says "OPTIONAL, MAY use multiple." Despite the words
>>     "OPTIONAL" and "MAY," an individual tester can determine without
a
>>     doubt whether a given message contains zero or more <senderRole>
>>     elements, and an infinite number of testers (all else being
equal)
>>     will come to exactly the same conclusion./
>>
>>     Perhaps something to think about at the F2F.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     *Timothy D. Gilmore* | SAIC
>>
>>     Sr. Test Engineer | ILPSG | NIMS Support Center |
>>
>>     IPAWS CA / NIMS STEP
>>
>>     phone: 606.274.2063 | fax: 606.274.2025
>>
>>     mobile: 606.219.7882 | email: gilmoret@us.saic.com
>>     <mailto:gilmoret@us.saic.com>
>>
>>     P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>
> --
> Rex Brooks
> President, CEO
> Starbourne Communications Design
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> Berkeley, CA 94702
> Tel: 510-898-0670
>
>
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