I missed the call/discussion this week. But
wanted to note that the system intelligence must be able to self discover and
modify in some fashion as what David described. When dealing with resources
that can either degrade or be upgraded/enhanced over time, we have to have an
automatic adjusting mechanism which is very similar to a discovery mechanism. Otherwise
the system resources will either become underutilized or over committed over
time.
Gale R.
Horst
Electric
Power Research Institute (EPRI)
942 Corridor Park Blvd.
Knoxville, TN
37932
Office: 865-218-8078
Cell: 865-368-2603
ghorst@epri.com
From: David RR Webber
(XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 12:36
PM
To: Edward Cazalet
Cc: emix@lists.oasis-open.org;
Toby.Considine@gmail.com; 'Phil Davis'
Subject: RE: [emix] Power storage
strategies
Never under estimate
an engineers ability to add complexity!
What is wrong with the
simple notion of % full and capacity total in MW and storage ratio?!?!
Completely agnostic to the storage device characteristics!!!
If I know the storage
is 60% full and has a total capacity of 100 MW - and a default ratio of power
to storage of 4:1 then I know I can push 40 x 4 = 160 MW at the device to fill
it. Plus if device is sending out updating in intervals - I might send it
100MW - then it says it is 85% full - so I adjust accordingly.
Once it is full it
sends "Stop!" - simple!
If you want to get
clever on your backend systems - you may track actual storage ratio achieved
compared to default - or the device can adjust that itself.
--------
Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [emix] Power storage strategies
From: "Edward Cazalet" <ed@MegaWattSF.com>
Date: Mon, April 26, 2010 12:04 pm
To: "'David RR Webber (XML)'" <david@drrw.info>, "'Phil
Davis'"
<pddcoo@gmail.com>
Cc: <emix@lists.oasis-open.org>, <Toby.Considine@gmail.com>
Yes, storage can
play a big role in providing ancillary services and supporting the integration
of wind and solar. I am a big advocate of distributed storage in very large
amounts (see my attached editorial on the subject which has led to pending
legislation to promote storage in California).
Also see my storage company's website (www.megawattsf.com) below on this
subject.
Both of you raise
the issue of what is behind the meters including storage. After thinking about
this problem for some time, I think it is too difficult to communicate what is
physically behind the meters. We would need to know the state of charge of
storage devices, the charge/discharge efficiencies and nonlinearities of each
type of battery, battery temperature that can limit use, and the opportunity
costs of storage use. In some case what is behind the meter changes such as
when an electric vehicle is plugged in, a storage battery is added or removed
for maintenance and so on. And sometimes the storage may be ice storage which
is useful when there is an air conditioning load and less useful when there is
not air conditioning load. And as David said, each storage device needs new XML.
The other approach
is Transactional Energy, wherein the priced offers and transactions over
current and forward intervals using frequent, small transactions can fully
convey all of the necessary transactional information on what is behind the
meter including any storage with no specifics on the devices or their state and
no special XML. And with forward priced offers that form a forward price
curve, automated self-dispatch of storage is much easier to do.
Vice President and
Co-Founder
MegaWatt Storage
Farms, Inc.
101 First Street, Suite 552
From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:42
AM
To: Phil Davis
Cc: emix@lists.oasis-open.org;
Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Subject: RE: [emix] Power storage
strategies
Can we get one of
those 400 people to write some XML for us?!?!
If telephone switch
industry is a guide here - this means we already have 3 sets of battery
subsystem XML - GE, Hitachi
and Samsung - with more to follow. And of course each new model has new
XML...
--------
Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [emix] Power storage strategies
From: "Phil Davis" <pddcoo@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, April 26, 2010 11:26 am
To: "'David RR Webber (XML)'" <david@drrw.info>,
<Toby.Considine@gmail.com>
Cc: <emix@lists.oasis-open.org>
Actually, GE announced such a system last
week and is hiring 400 people in Atlanta
to staff the new business. It's a substation level product. Also, I have
spoken personally with people at Hitachi
and Samsung who are testing a 1 MW battery. Such a battery from another
vendor is in test operation behind PJM's main offices. So local here takes on a
new meaning depending on whether it is truly behind the customer meter, or
behind the distribution grid meters (substations and the like), or on a
transmission system. Theoretically, batteries of this size could replace
generators used for voltage or frequency support.
From: David RR Webber (XML)
[mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 10:58
AM
To: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Cc: emix@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [emix] Power storage
strategies
It occurs to me that
local storage can potentially play a role here - depending on its efficiency of
course. One can anticipate that future technology will offer higher %
there - especially if market forces drive that equation.
Therefore - a future
system could offset power surges by drawing on locally stored resources that
were captured during off-peak or excess capacity. In fact such a system
may notify suppliers that they can "push" excess power to local
storage at some pre-determined cost point - and of course also need to indicate
that the storage facility is at a certain % level, or if empty - accept units
at a higher cost rate.
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